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Vintage Tape (Audio), Cassette, Wire and Magnetic Disc Recorders and Players Open-reel tape recorders, cassette recorders, 8-track players etc.

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Old 9th Oct 2020, 3:59 pm   #21
DMcMahon
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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There is a good 16 page service manual for the Collaro Transcriptor Mk. 3/Mk. 4 available to purchase/download from the Service Data link in top right corner of screen.

David
Just bought it now, shame there aren't any schematics available tho
Good for the mechanical side though, it is not the first OEM Tape Deck service manual that does not include electrical schematic, I wonder if the original Baird Service manual shows the tape deck electrical side ?

David
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 4:27 pm   #22
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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There is a good 16 page service manual for the Collaro Transcriptor Mk. 3/Mk. 4 available to purchase/download from the Service Data link in top right corner of screen.

David
Just bought it now, shame there aren't any schematics available tho
Good for the mechanical side though, it is not the first OEM Tape Deck service manual that does not include electrical schematic, I wonder if the original Baird Service manual shows the tape deck electrical side ?

David
The original service manuals do exist, but not for sale but is available here https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/baird_tr1.html
There is a Baird TR1 currently listed on ebay as "spotless and working" with a buy it now price a fiver short of 400 quid but does include the original service manuals, photos show part of the schematic.
Work has been done on it:
"The amplifier smoothing capacitor was changed for a modern equivalent as it was nearly open circuit... the original will be supplied as a pattern for a perfect future restoration."
No other work mentioned and this disclaimer/notice:

"All items are SECURITY MARKED and have a non-removable barcoded security sticker to prevent tampering. It will not be possible to remove or replace internal components without destroying the security measures."

Last edited by Cobaltblue; 9th Oct 2020 at 5:28 pm. Reason: Publishing Radiomuseum circuits can get you excluded from Radiomuseum
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 5:02 pm   #23
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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Thanks to the wise old gits here
I'm certainly old, I may be wise, but I'm not a git.
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 7:28 pm   #24
dave walsh
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

Very interesting Doug, especially as I have one of these myself. Anything marked Baird tends to get my attention [although I know it's a later company name and not directly linked to the man himself-who died here in Bexhill-June 1946]. I'm very familiar with your "Weighs a ton" description from just moving mine around the same room. I got mine from the famous Forum member Steve Pendlebury who transported it for me along with something else he was picking up. I'm wondering if that motor switch "add on" was a bodge to replace a fault elsewhere or perhaps included to isolate the motor and use the amp as a stand alone PA. [I had a sixties tape recorder with that facility].

Dave W
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 8:17 pm   #25
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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Very interesting Doug, especially as I have one of these myself. Anything marked Baird tends to get my attention [although I know it's a later company name and not directly linked to the man himself-who died here in Bexhill-June 1946]. I'm very familiar with your "Weighs a ton" description from just moving mine around the same room. I got mine from the famous Forum member Steve Pendlebury who transported it for me along with something else he was picking up. I'm wondering if that motor switch "add on" was a bodge to replace a fault elsewhere or perhaps included to isolate the motor and use the amp as a stand alone PA. [I had a sixties tape recorder with that facility].

Dave W
Hi Dave, the frame of the deck is certainly 'solid', I found the plywood frame struggles to hold it when taking it apart though.
You are spot-on about the added switch, shame it wasn't done a bit more thoughtfully. I'll try to make a nice plate for it.
The interior bulb is missing, I found bits of broken glass were loose inside. Are these this just standard 240v filament job, low wattage?

Doug
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 8:57 pm   #26
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

Sorry I don't know about the bulb/circuitry on this one Doug. I'm all talk and too few restorations really, due to a multiplicity of interests and endless family obligations I'm sure one of the experts will help. Keep us posted anyway so I may follow in your footsteps one day-perhaps

Dave W
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 9:31 pm   #27
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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Sorry I don't know about the bulb/circuitry on this one Doug. I'm all talk and too few restorations really, due to a multiplicity of interests and endless family obligations I'm sure one of the experts will help. Keep us posted anyway so I may follow in your footsteps one day-perhaps

Dave W
The schematic shows a mains voltage bulb, I would presume low wattage to avoid heat build up. Should have one in my stash of incandescent light bubls.
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 10:06 pm   #28
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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The "extra" EL84 elevates (I guess) the electronics to a better class than single EL84 types.
Should be a rewarding restoration.
Graham
Graham, the power amp is single ended, by the size of the output transformer, maybe 3 or 4 watts max, the other EL84 is used for the erase/record bias oscillator.

Doug
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Old 9th Oct 2020, 11:03 pm   #29
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

After a beer, wine and now gin, I've had an idea bout the missing internal illumination bulb, maybe wire it in in series for a built in current limiter though might make it a bit of a light show as demand changes, nope, current draw should settle down to be steady unless some brown stuff hits the proverbial, bit of a pulse at power up, the SE amp is always on, the motors should be the biggest draw and only change on play/ffw/rw.

Wee lock doon dram, Lagavulin 12 year old, should provide some clarity.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 12:40 am   #30
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

I have one of these machines I bought a year or so ago, plays very well indeed.

In fact my very first reel to reel restoration was one of these ( a different one ) which I found as a 14 yo youngster on dumped in a field in Benlech Wales in 1976. It was in a terrible state, just an amplifier chassis with almost all valves missing with tape deck which was seized up. Took me quite a while to identify brand and model, no internet in those days. Borrowed Hellyer’s book from the library and it is in there, page 24. Got it working eventually later that year, learnt a lot from that. So definitely one of my favourites. The tape I found with it was Sgt Peppers.
Main faults I remember were waxies, plessey electrolytics R12 220K anode resistor on ECC83, loose ground eyelet on the EL84 erase pentode cathode resistor R35, and hardest to find was an intermittent short between one of C19 or C 20 50pf caps to the chassis. Worth checking both switches on the loudspeaker output, the mute one and the int ext LS selector
Great machine
Good luck
Chris
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 8:52 am   #31
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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I have one of these machines I bought a year or so ago, plays very well indeed.

In fact my very first reel to reel restoration was one of these ( a different one ) which I found as a 14 yo youngster on dumped in a field in Benlech Wales in 1976. It was in a terrible state, just an amplifier chassis with almost all valves missing with tape deck which was seized up. Took me quite a while to identify brand and model, no internet in those days. Borrowed Hellyer’s book from the library and it is in there, page 24. Got it working eventually later that year, learnt a lot from that. So definitely one of my favourites. The tape I found with it was Sgt Peppers.
Main faults I remember were waxies, plessey electrolytics R12 220K anode resistor on ECC83, loose ground eyelet on the EL84 erase pentode cathode resistor R35, and hardest to find was an intermittent short between one of C19 or C 20 50pf caps to the chassis. Worth checking both switches on the loudspeaker output, the mute one and the int ext LS selector
Great machine
Good luck
Chris
Thanks Chris, this info will be very useful in the coming weeks. Nice find regarding the Sgt Pepper tape.

The one I have has certainly been well used and had a DIY mod to the power for the motors for using it as an amp only. The telefunken ECC83 looks a bit out of place although it is also a 50's valve, maybe a NOS fitted in 1963!

I'll replace the 50-50uF can with a couple of 47uF, I have some of those long thin ones, pulls but recent, to try the 10mm drill cap stuffing trick.

Doug.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:05 am   #32
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

These 47uF 450v caps are just over 50mm long, should fit in the can ok.

I'll try the drill hole method used by Refugee 1st, can always scoop out and try my paxolin disk method I used on the other can.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:30 am   #33
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

Those 47uF capacitors look extra long and slim, apart from their dimensions, is there anything in their name description that signifies their length/slimness ?

David
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 11:39 am   #34
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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Originally Posted by dougietamson View Post
There is a Baird TR1 currently listed on ebay as "spotless and working" with a buy it now price a fiver short of 400 quid but does include the original service manuals, photos show part of the schematic.
A real nice looking TR 1 but for top money. I see it includes Collaro tape deck manuals for Mark II & III, so possibly the tape deck is not a Mk. 4 as I originally thought.

David
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 1:23 pm   #35
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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Those 47uF capacitors look extra long and slim, apart from their dimensions, is there anything in their name description that signifies their length/slimness ?

David
Measured with my callipers, 10mm OD x 53mm long, brand is Elite (we'll be the judge of that), P.E.T I think I pulled them from 2 xbox 360 PSUs (both were working, the xbox motherboard had the BGA lead free solder issue which the roast in a hot oven hack didn't fix).
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 3:20 pm   #36
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

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Here's some photos

The middle 2 are a before and after the can capacitor re-stuff, not done one before.

Doug
An interesting step by step stuffing procedure being reported gradually in stages.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...post&t=171884y
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 8:07 pm   #37
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

I should have said restuffing procedure.
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Old 16th Oct 2020, 8:59 am   #38
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Default Re: Baird TR1 restoration begins.

So the 47uF 400v 10mm diameter x 53mm length capacitors are just a wee bit too long to fit nicely in the can.

I decided to pull the can apart minimising damage to the outside and the rubber/paxolin cap. The innards came out in one piece.
I drilled 1.5mm holes through the middle of the aluminium rivets that fix the solder terminals so I could run a short length of single core copper wire. The copper wire was would around the solder terminals at their base for extra stabilty.
I then attached each of the +ve leads of new caps to the copper wires on the inside. The -Ve leads were tied together and then crimped between the paxolin cap and the can. Hot glue to hold the caps together and some at the base for insulation.

Pics of before and after and some of the intermediate steps attached.
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