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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 12:21 pm   #1
mikethetester
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Default Marconi ship's radio.

Hello has anyone have any of the 1960's commercially made Marconi ships radio equipment made for a radio room of the time...such as Eddystone Nebbula, ITT Sentinel, Marconi monitor. Pacific...etc

Marconi Ship radio equipment..1950-1970's
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 12:29 pm   #2
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Are you seeking to buy such equipment or just enquiring as to whether members have any?
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 12:53 pm   #3
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Nearest I have is the Marconi Gannet dating from the late 50s
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 2:12 pm   #4
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

There's surprisingly few Marconi marine radios in circulation; Marconi's business-model was to rent shipborne radio-gear to the shipping-company as a package-deal and when the ship was scrapped [or moved to different ownership] the radios went back to Marconi. What happened to the radios after that I don't know - they certainly didn't often seem to escape onto the surplus market.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 2:21 pm   #5
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
There's surprisingly few Marconi marine radios in circulation; Marconi's business-model was to rent shipborne radio-gear to the shipping-company as a package-deal and when the ship was scrapped [or moved to different ownership] the radios went back to Marconi. What happened to the radios after that I don't know - they certainly didn't often seem to escape onto the surplus market.
You say "surprisingly few.." but if what you say is true (I'm not doubting it) then surely or most probably - especially after the lifetime of a ship - they were scrapped after being sent back to Marconi. It makes sense to me that Marconi just wanted sell/rent out new radios and didn't want their old ones available on the used equipment market to spoil a new sale. Just my thoughts, view.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 3:23 pm   #6
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

There must have been a formal disposal arrangement, one place that always had
redundant MIMCO stock was the now-defunct GWM Radio, Worthing.

I bought two "Atalanta" 2207C receivers in the '80s cost £45 each.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 5:26 pm   #7
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

That era of Marine R/Ts is a keen interest of mine. There are a few Marconi sets floating around the vintage fraternity, either this Forum site, or VMARS. Best bet is :- "The Radio Room" section of the "Ships Nostalgia" Forum site.
Me - I'm a Coastal Radio/Woodsons/ BEME guy.They were in competition with Marconi Marine for years.

Regards, David
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 8:49 pm   #8
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

I have a Marconi Kestrel III, but, sadly I cannot obtain the info. required to rebuild it. It has been robbed of parts, so difficult to ascertain how to get it back to scratch. It uses TT21' or 22's, nice solid unit.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 12:59 am   #9
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

I was a sea-going Radio Officer in the 60's - most of ships that I served on had "Mercury" and "Elettra" receivers which were slowly being replaced by "Atatanta's". The Mercury was the low frequency receiver, 15kHz to 4MHz and the Elettra covered the 4Mz up to 25MHz.
The Atalanta did the whole lot but it was a large brick in some radio rooms. I sailed on one Liberty ship where the radio room was only about 8ft square so by the time the Oceanspan and Reliant transmitters were installed and the Alert, Auto-Alarm and antenna switch box hanging on the bulkhead there was very little room for the logbook , message pads, scrap pads and a Marconi morse key- the Atalanta was right in your face. I got the chippie to build a substantial shelf with about 12inches of clearance underneath and put the Atalanta on that. I wonder if Marconi ever found out - they would do spot inspections every now and then.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 5:19 am   #10
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Some of the receivers that MWT developed for Mimco marine applications were also sold directly by MWT as part of its communications receiver range. These included the Atalanta, as the Marconi NS702, and the Apollo, as the Marconi N2050, as shown in these advertisements:

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Presumably MWT sold these to shore stations, etc. Some of these might have come on to the second-hand market.

The Mimco Nebula was the Eddystone EC958/5, the marine version of the original EC958. But the EC958/5 as such might not have been sold directly, although there were plenty of other variants.


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Old 24th Aug 2021, 7:05 am   #11
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

The photo on the second page is the H2900.

Notice the cables through grommets on the right-hand section of the front panel, the part with the S meter on it. There are two knurled screws below the meter. release these, and the right hand section of the front panel pulls away, supported on a double-hinged bracket revealing all the set's input and output connections behind it. Cables to these either go out the front - if the removable panel is drilled or cut away, or else routed to appear out a hole at the back. There is a cable duct for them down the right side of the receiver with an aluminium cover over it. Small screws hold the cover so it's easily removed to fit/remove cables. The whole body of the receiver is one big heavy casting with top and bottom lids. The one I had was a prototype and looked to have been milled from solid with some form of shot blastinf to give a casting like appearance.

Because of the price, Marconi sold very very few of these.

Oh, the sysnthesiser is implemented by an awful lot of LSI/MSI logic ICs controlling a single loop. All the logic is spread across a large number of boards slid into s dense pack in a toast-rack like housing. For maximum serviceability the whole lot are wire-wrap connected together. Hundreds and hundreds of wire wrap joints onto sharp square pins. The synth is an abomination electronically as well as mechanically, it uses rate multiplier chain techniques rather than dividers, and relies on a very slow loop stripping off enough of the inevitable modulation. Ugh! The receiver strips (there are two full ISB receivers so 4 audio outputs from two antenna diversity inputs behind that swinging front panel) show impressive care over signal handling, well ahead of its time, but the synthesiser technology missed the boat and future receiver design took other paths though it took a couple of decades to get good enough.

H2900 receivers are now extremely rare. In that advert, it's the poster boy as maybe more of an aspirational icon. I think everyone sensible bought Apollos. Marconi would have liked you to buy the extremely expensive H2900 but it was a futile hope.

Of the mundane affordable models, most went into ships as rentals, very few got sold. Rental sets remained Marconi property, and when returned as ships were refitted or scrapped, I believe they were destroyed. Maybe GWM Radio had a connection with a fleet which had a policy of buying and owning their radio gear? This would account for the rarity of post-war Marconi receivers nowadays.

The rarity factor made them attractive, at least to me. When I finally got my hands on one and got to take it apart and replace parts nicked from it over the years to get it going, I found an amazing receiver let down by then-current synthesiser technology that would work only as a point-to-point receiver taking seconds over any change of frequency. No use for listening around with, and dual diversity and ISB weren't of any use to me. So the H2900 got auctioned off by George Dobbs for G-QRP club funds. Someone else could explore their way around it and learn about it.

The only place I heard of buying a couple of H2900s was Interpol. I think for land based use. Could you imagine a maritime version of one of those American police chase videos now so common on youtube Otherwise it was a case of "Buy an H2900 and be the envy of other major superpowers"?

David

Late edit! Make that SSI/MSI chips, this thing predates LSI being available to any extent.
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Last edited by Radio Wrangler; 6th Oct 2022 at 4:00 pm. Reason: Just happened to spot a typo. Meant SSI, typed LSI.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 12:04 am   #12
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

There is an interesting facebook group called "The Marconi International Marine Communications Company" which has lots of posts about MiMCo gear. The Atalanta receiver does seem to be rare and was highly thought of by the RO fraternity.
Marconi's way of doing business was ahead of its time but brought about by technical necessity. They provided a 'wrap around' service to shipping companies, renting, installing and servicing equipment and supplying radio operators too. For a time they even had their own shore stations but the GPO took them over later. There was a Marconi depot in most of the world's major ports. They had their own training school in Chelmsford but as demand for ROs grew local technical colleges offered courses too.
I think it is right that ex-rental equipment was scrapped by Marconi. it is also true that some larger shipping companies opted to buy the equipment outright and employed their own ROs- which may indeed account for the trickle of Atalantas etc onto the surplus market.
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Old 25th Aug 2021, 1:30 am   #13
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Insofar as both MWT and Mimco used the Marconi brand, the “Marconi” situation was rather complex.

Mimco used equipment from various suppliers, including, but not limited to, MWT and Eddystone. Marine main receivers designed and built by MWT for Mimco were also sold directly by MWT as general-purpose HF receivers. Eddystone receivers supplied to Mimco varied amongst standard models, special variants of standard models, and bespoke designs. Eddystone also supplied receivers to MWT for sale by the latter organization, probably across the same three categories, the H2310 Argo being an example of a special variant of a standard model (EC958/4). Added to that. Both MWT and Eddystone equipments found shipboard applications under their respective own brands.

The Mimco Apollo and Nebula were evidently released at the same time, 1971 1st quarter, according to this article:

Marconi Apollo & Nebula Marconi Mariner 197103,04.pdf


The Apollo was an MWT design, I’d say essentially designed around the needs of merchant marine HF, MF and LF requirements including SSB. Its frequency coverage speaks to that, namely 15 kHz to 28 MHz, with synthesized high-stability bandspread on the marine HF bands only. Nonetheless, MWT saw it as a reasonable fit to the wider HF receiver market and sold it as the N2050.

The Nebula was the marine version of the Eddystone EC958, namely the EC958/5. Eddystone had designed the EC958 for a wide range of applications, including but not limited to merchant marine SSB. Its frequency coverage was 10 kHz to 30 MHz, with a high stability mode available for the 1.6 to 30 MHz range. The initial standard production variant, the EC958 (no suffix), was not fully compliant with the marine requirements. The EC958/5 marine variant had improved front-end selectivity below 1.6 MHz. Judging by the Eddystone data sheets, it does seem to have been offered for general sale as well as for the Mimco rebadge.

The Eddystone 1830 was a multi-application receiver positioned at price point lower than that of the EC958. It was evidently designed from the start to meet the marine reserve receiver requirements, with which the standard production variant, the 1830/1, complied. I imagine that the Mimco Atlantic was a rebadge of the 1830/1, or a subvariant of it, although that is unconfirmed.

The Eddystone 1837 was a higher-stability development of the 1830. The improved stability was obtained by using a frequency counting and correction system (although not the same as that previously used on the Marconi (MWT) H2310 Argo.) Here the marine main receiver requirements were evidently a key, but not the only, design target, as the 1837/1 standard production variant complied. The Mimco Pacific was a rebadged 1837/1S.

Eddystone’s second-generation high-stability solid-state HF receiver was the 1650 series, in the mid-1980s. The standard production variant, the 1650/1, was qualified as a marine main receiver. But Mimco did not use this, at about that time it adopted the Dansk M3000 as its “Oceanic” model.

Returning to MWT-designed receivers, those used by Mimco appear to have been especially designed for that purpose, and then pressed into GP service more-or-less “as was” by MWT. That was the case for the Mimco Apollo (MWT N2050), as noted above, and holds true for the preceding Mimco Atalanta (MWT NS702), Mimco Electra (MWT NS601) and Mercury (NS301) models. As a corollary, where a receiver from MWT’s primary HF range was required for shipboard service, it was installed as an MWT unit. The following article describes a mixed Mimco/MWT installation from the 1950s:

SS Gothic MWT & Mimco Equipment Marconi Mariner 195311,12.pdf



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Old 28th Aug 2021, 4:57 am   #14
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

The OP mentioned the Marconi (Mimco) Monitor. I think that this might refer to the late 1960s Monitor-named marine standby receiver. The only reference that I have been able to find for this is in Osterman, 3rd edition, 1998. According to that source it could operate on 220 V DC or 24 V DC, and was fitted with a valve complement that was comprised of mostly the Philips/Mullard low HT voltage car radio types, with 4 of the ECH83 alone. Presumably this enable 24 V DC operation without the need for a vibrator or motor-generator power pack. The valve line-up also included 2 x PL84, presumably for the AF output, and presumably these would function to some extent with 24 V HT. I assume that it was made for Mimco by MWT, but if so, it does not appear to have been offered as an MWT model.

Has anyone seen a schematic for the Monitor? It would be interesting to see just how it was arranged.

I am not sure if there was a direct solid-state successor to the Monitor, but the Mimco Sentinel was a rebadge of the Eddystone 1004, which was an approved marine reserve receiver dating from 1972, and a derivative of the Eddystone 1000 series.


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Old 28th Aug 2021, 7:48 am   #15
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

I have a Marconi Seaspan Tx and a Mercury Rx. If the OP wishes to see recreations of ship's radio rooms, the Museum of Internal Fire in South West Wales has operational Marconi equipment: http://www.gb2mop.org/index.htm

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Old 28th Aug 2021, 2:12 pm   #16
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

G'day everyone.

I hope I am not out of place here but I have not heard mention of the receivers from the CR series mentioned.
CR-100, CR-150, B28, B29.
Also one I have that carries the MIMCO name on the rear panel and an "ELETTRA" badge on the front panel. This 670C made by Eddystone. Untouched! Complete with it's Hunts capacitors. For me this will be a shelf queen. Cleaned and polished to look pretty but otherwise un-molested. I promise!
Obviously the B28 and B29 were Navy and were not under the Marconi lease arrangement. This being the reason, I guess, that they are not uncommon out in the world.
What about "cabin receivers". What Marconi ones were there and are they worthy of this topic?
Just wondering that's all as I have the ones I have mentioned.

I do apologize if my thought bubble is out of place.

Cheers,
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 2:23 pm   #17
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Slightly earlier than your requested date but the attached pictures are of the Marconi Radio Room exhibit in the Halifax (Nova Scotia) Maritime Museum. Well worth a visit if you are in the vicinity.

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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 3:52 am   #18
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

Regarding the MWT N2050/Mimco Apollo, I haven’t seen a full technical paper or journal article on this receiver, similar in nature to those written for the various other Marconi and Eddystone receivers of the period. But its frequency synthesis system was described (without referring to the Apollo itself) towards the end of this IEE paper of 1969 November:
Review of Progress in Mercantile-Marine Radio Communication
Part 2. Technique and design
G. J. McDonald, B.Sc, C.Eng., F.I.E.E. (Mimco), and C. S. Burnham (MWT).
To a large extent the two-part paper addressed the then-forthcoming change to SSB for marine radiotelephony. The discussion towards the end of Part 2 addressed ways and means of obtaining the necessary stability. Four approaches were discussed:

Use of phase-locked oscillators - I do not know if this referred to a specific Marconi group receiver.

Drift-cancelling-loop techniques – this clearly referred to the Eddystone EC958 series , of which the marine version was the EC958/5 (Marconi Nebula).

Frequency-error-correcting systems – this referred to the MWT H2310 Argo naval receiver, which was an MWT-modification of the Eddystone EC958 (EC958/4, I think)

Simple combination of the signal of a variable oscillator frequency with a fixed high-stability signal, i.e. direct frequency generation – this clearly referred to the MWT N2050/Mimco Apollo.

I have extracted and attached the pertinent section of the paper.

Interestingly, the Mimco Apollo and Nebula were not announced until around 1971Q1 – quite some time after this paper was written. The H2310 Argo was extant in 1969, so looks to have followed the parent EC958 quite early on.

With the Apollo and Nebula, Mimco seemed to have abandoned its former practice of allocating its own four-digit-with-suffix-letter type designation, e.g. the Atlanta was type 2207C (main variant) whereas the MWT designation was NS702. Thus the Mimco Apollo was type N2050 (i.e. the MWT designation), and the Nebula was type EC958/5.


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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 10:14 am   #19
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

I have a Marconi ships receiver from the 1930's.
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Old 22nd Dec 2021, 11:15 am   #20
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Default Re: Marconi ship's radio.

The OP hasn't posted in this thread since he started it and hasn't visited the forums since 30 August 2021.
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