Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.

[trh01uk]

I can't help feeling that the vintage radio community could get itself organised to be able to re-manufacture parts that go unobtainable. That could vary from making 3D-printers available to producing machine drawings of parts in standard CAD formats to getting orders for specific items into the sort of quantities that commercial outfits are willing to accept as an order.

If the level of interest in vintage things is maintained going forwards, then the problem will only become more acute - mainly due to parts failing from old age. Transformers that go leaky or burn out, switches that fall to bits, connectors with spring contacts that fracture, and rubber that perishes into a pile of dust.

Richard

[Station X]

A good idea. Now we just need someone to organise it!

[Cobaltblue]

Some old parts are already being re-manufactured Ben Dijkman is a shining example. https://www.bendijkman.nl/

The problem is that in the main we collectors are a tight fisted bunch and it going to be hard to repay the investment.

I have been looking at re-manufacturing some Cossor parts for best part of a decade but the sums just don't work no one is going to pay £60 for the plastic surround that always shrinks on the 500 and 501 when you only pay £30 for a complete tidy example.
Now that 3D printing is becoming better and cheaper I will have to look again
The sums may go in a different direction for very rare parts

Cheers

Mike T

[Ted Kendall]

OK - who's up for doing PX4s?

[Cobaltblue]

PX4's already being manufactured ?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32812240544.html

Cheers

Mike T

[GrimJosef]

Strictly speaking OT as PX4s aren't unobtainable, but I know what you mean. Brimar do them https://brimaruk.com/valves/triodes/brimar-px4/ and other suppliers are available. I suspect, as Mike says, though that we don't want to pay what they cost to make, do we ?

Cheers,

GJ

[Hartley118]

Originally Posted by Station X

A good idea. Now we just need someone to organise it!

Did I hear Richard just volunteer?

Martin

[barrymagrec]

What happened to the company that was going to re-manufacture Mullard valves using the original production equipment?

[M0FYA Andy]

That was BrimarUK.

Andy

[GrimJosef]

Quite a few Mullard production machines are in line for use in the Great British Valve Project https://brimaruk.com/menugbvp/about-the-gbvp/.

For a while a decade or so ago Blackburn Microtech Solutions tried to turn their skills to producing modern valves on the Blackburn site. The E813CC http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/e813cc.pdf was, I think, the only one that went into production. But the market is looking for close-ish replicas of traditional designs, not novel devices, and I believe BMS ceased trading quite quickly.

Cheers,

GJ

[John10b]

Thank you Mike T for the link to ...Dutch man/ woman, I note they can make badges, well I need a Pye BB Hifi badge, see wanted section. I might send them a text, my only fear is the cost for one only!
John

[SiriusHardware]

Another thing which needs tackling is the 'cheese gears' used in certain plastic Philips cassette mechanisms, the ones made from opaque yellow plastic which just crumble ... like cheese. Due to the helical twist on the teeth on the outer rim, these gears would be unusually difficult to cast in resin, I think.

I bought a couple of 3D printed replacements from the USA but had to ask them to redo them as the first ones supplied had been printed far too quickly at too low a resolution. I had to ask them to print me replacements at the highest resolution / slowest speed they could, and those ones were just about acceptable.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

I'm with Mike, although I don't think it's because we're tight-fisted, but more that most people interested in this kind of thing are also of a practical bent. If the options are paying hundreds of pounds or attempting a repair with some ingenuity the latter will win out more often.

However, there is a significant market for valve amplifier 'boutique' components, so if there are enough people willing to pay hundreds for handmade beeswax capacitors then I'd never say never! Inject some sex appeal with ogle-worthy close-up photographs and a slick website and demand might turn out to be quite something.

I don't think I'll be paying Brimar's £469 any time soon though. Thanks for the link to the Great British Valve Project. I hadn't heard of that and it sounds marvellous. The link at the bottom of the Brimar page doesn't work for me, but a search throws up a Brimar page that does. I'll let them know about the broken link.

I've bought things from Ben Dijkman before. Excellent quality, and I believe they can weave cloths to your specification as well.

[GrimJosef]

£469 is the price for two valves of course (their target market more often than not listens in stereo).The earliest 'back in the day' price I have handily available for a PX4 is 16/6 in 1934. The Bank of England's inflation calculator reckons that that is near enough £60 now. But those were the days of mass production of course. And the PX4 was already past its value peak by then, the PX25 having come to market. So 16/6 might have been regarded as a 'value' price.

Cheers,

GJ

[G6ONEDave]

The price issue is not just related to making new replacements for obsolete items, as quite often oem spare parts can be priced such that a repair is not viable, due to cost of their spares. I think this down to the oem not actually wanting the end product to be repaired. I hope that I am wrong with that thought, but I doubt it.

[JohnBG8JMB]

I went to the brimar site out of curiosity.

I quote from the 6sn7 page
"Brimar thermionic products’ 6SN7GT Dual triodes are noted for their favourable sound, rich warmth, detailed bass and controlled mids. The highs are subdued just enough to maintain the wonderful smoothness of bygone times."

Is that so?

Audiophools reign, methinks.

John

[electrogram]

Not that i know anything about valve manufacture but why are PX4s so expensive to make, (assuming they are expensive to make, not just expensive to buy), they look like they would be much easier to make than say an EL84 or ECC83

[AC/HL]

Cross subsidy? The retail price of anything is what the customer will pay.

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue

The problem is that in the main we collectors are a tight fisted bunch and it going to be hard to repay the investment...
no one is going to pay £60 for the plastic surround that always shrinks on the 500 and 501 when you only pay £30 for a complete tidy example.

It's been said before that no one will get rich restoring radios (with the odd exception perhaps). Most are for personal hobby enjoyment on limited budgets. The for sale section illustrates this well, Foc is by far the most popular price, even charity offers struggle.

[Radio Wrangler]

They are older valves, tolerances won't be as tight, grid wires not so fine, materials less exotic there won't be all the tooling for the button base. The PX4 could well be cheaper to make except the sales numbers will be smaller, much smaller than the EL84, so there won't be the same economy of scale. Also the EL84 will have assemblies in common with other parts, making them cheaper.

The PX4 will sell into a much more limited market and it's likely that market believes there is no substitute for an NOS part.

David

[trh01uk]

Originally Posted by Station X

A good idea. Now we just need someone to organise it!

Actually I am vaguely aware that something along these lines already exists. Known as "maker clubs", which exist in some of the bigger cities I believe. I don't live in a big city so have little knowledge of these bodies, but the last time I checked the one in Bristol had facilities like 3D printing and laser cutting available - along with training programmes to learn how to use such tools. They tend to focus on modern electronics of course, playing with things like the Raspberry Pi - but I see no reason why they would turn away anyone pursuing vintage radio.

I've not paid a lot of attention to these things since there are none near me, and I don't notice much comment on them on this forum.


Richard