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Old 9th Aug 2006, 10:10 pm   #1
ALANS ANITAS
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Default Local Rubbish Tips.

Hi

I went to a tip in Northamptonshire today,which had a scruffy, but complete Bush DAC10,but was not allowed to purchase it "because it was electric.
I did suggest that he cut off the mains lead and sell it as a collectable, but the answer was still no, despite previous contractors on the site accepting my qualifications. After 48 years servicing electric and electronic equipment I feel caipable of working on a DAC10. I had previously purchased radios, televisions, and video recorders from the same site.
At tips in Leicestershire you are not allowed to purchase anything.
What a way to recycle! !!!!

Regards


ALAN

Last edited by ALANS ANITAS; 9th Aug 2006 at 10:12 pm. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 9th Aug 2006, 10:41 pm   #2
tvden
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Hi yes its the same here in Suffolk, you cant get anything electric from the tips anymore, which is such a shame
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Old 9th Aug 2006, 10:55 pm   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALANS ANITAS View Post
Hi
At tips in Leicestershire you are not allowed to purchase anything.
What a way to recycle! !!!!
Regards
ALAN
Yes - I can readily understand your annoyance and disappointment. I've experienced similar.
On the other hand, though, it must be said that such "re-cycling" must be done in a "safe for everyone" manner. You know and I know that we could quite effectively "re-cycle" an old valve radio. But the man who is responsible for making the decision to let you take it away doesn't know that - and he also doesn't know what you - or anyone else - are really going to do with it.
Secondly, there's the issues of safety / personal litigation to contend with. Say I buy / scrounge / steal something from the local tip. It's something that I think I know enough about to handle safely. I subsequently discover that I was wrong in this assumption - and someone gets hurt. Badly. (Say, for example, a CRT implosion. Razor sharp glass shards everywhere. A child loses an eye.). The inevitable legal action follows. If, on the other hand, the "man" says "NO - we are going to re-cycle it" (in an approved, controlled manner being understood), he avoids this risk - and my para. 1 applies also.
As I say, yes ~ its irritating at best ~ but in today's World, 'fraid that's the way it is. Such policies do have their merits, however, as I've tried to explain

Al / G8DLH
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Old 9th Aug 2006, 10:55 pm   #4
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

This is standard nowadays. In addition to the health and safety paranoia, tips often have single supplier contracts with 'recycling companies' who don't like anybody else cherrypicking stuff. The smaller tips may be your best bet, where you may be able to get the bloke on the gate to turn a blind eye, but these are rare now - most local authorities operate huge 'recycling centres' with dozens of employees, and at least one of these is bound to be a jobsworth.

All you can do is spread the word about Freecycle and encourage people to dispose of stuff via that.

Paul
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Old 9th Aug 2006, 11:08 pm   #5
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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
. . . and at least one of these is bound to be a jobsworth . . .
Paul
I think you're being a little unfair here, Paul.
Health and Safety at rubbish tips is a real concern - and this includes the removal of items from same. The "jobsworth" is not only doing his job - he's also trying to act responsibly.

Regards,

Al / G8DLH
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 12:35 am   #6
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

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I think you're being a little unfair here, Paul.
Health and Safety at rubbish tips is a real concern - and this includes the removal of items from same. The "jobsworth" is not only doing his job - he's also trying to act responsibly.
Hmm, I'm not too sure about that. It's obviously not a good idea to let people stagger out of recycling centres carrying drums of cyanide or sawn off shotguns, but the sensible approach is to allow the staff leeway to make a judgment based on the nature of the item and the age and apparent experience of the scrounger.

I don't think these restrictions are there to protect the public, they're there to stop the local authority and contractors getting sued and receiving bad publicity, which is a very different thing. As I said in the previous post, there's also the issue of subcontractor exclusivity, which is solely about commercial convenience.

I'm afraid I adopt a totally illegal approach. Whenever I dump anything at my local centre (Redbridge in Oxford) I always have a surreptitious look around for anything interesting. If I find something, I pick it up and *immediately* walk purposefully back to the car. There's no point in asking if I can buy it because I know what the answer will be. If challenged I try to look embarrassed and explain that I can't bear to tip the item, I've had it most of my life, and although the wife will kill me I'm going to take it back home. So far this hasn't led to any unpleasantness, though I don't do it frequently enough to be remembered.

Paul
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 12:41 am   #7
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

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Originally Posted by G8DLH View Post
Such policies do have their merits, however, as I've tried to explain

Al / G8DLH
I confess I just don't get it. Every electrical appliance ever made will fail in time, and when it fails it becomes a peril in the hands of anyone who sets about trying to repair it without paying due heed to his competence or lack thereof for the task. Yes, the law is what it is and people will try to cover their own backs, but I'm at a loss to see any moral case why legal action ought to be possible against someone selling you an old TV whose CRT you might break and not against any High Street retailer for selling you a new one whose CRT you might break when you decide to have a go at fixing it three years or five years down the line. Isn't it just a case of "oh, here's something we can put a stop to, because most people won't much notice"?

At which point I revert to my usual policy of trying very hard not to think about such things...

Paul
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 9:56 am   #8
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

If I am getting rid of something electrical at the tip, Say for instance
an old lawnmower or strimmer with a non working motor, I will take off the cable anyway.. Otherwise it may end up at the boot sale as working.
Having said that. I recently bought an identical strimmer from my
local boot sale for £2 and was ale to rebuild my original one that
I was going to throw out .
I saw a reference on a Freecycle page to a tip about 40 miles away
and it has a sort of shop where items considered to be refurbished or
restored can be purchased . Sounded like a good idea to me.
Mind you , I dont know if this applies to electrical items.
Does anyone else have ideas or know of a tip that does this?
Regards Peter W Reelguy
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 12:02 pm   #9
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Hello,

Rubbish tips in Surrey will not permit the removal of anything from their sites and in the case of mains electrical items no doubt because of the safety aspect and the risk of comeback should someone harm themselves. However, Hampshire tips seem to have a different policy and I recently visited one at Petersfield where they have a shop where one can buy old transistor radios very cheaply, and old PC equipment and a pile of mobile telephone chargers were for sale.

Howard

Last edited by howard; 10th Aug 2006 at 12:08 pm.
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 12:54 pm   #10
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Have to agree with the Pauls - UK local authorities are full of jobsworths who want to interpret regulations to the letter (compare it with how other EU countries act, when you visit...). No heed is paid to ability or personal choice - collectables and prefectly useable domestic equipment are simply crushed or smashed (how does THAT fit with the Government's purely cosmetic policies on recycling?). My local authority sells a lot of this sort of stuff to a couple of dealers - who promptly sell it for a nice profit at the following Saturday boot fair, untested, with mains plugs and leads, petrol still in mowers, air in scuba cylinders etc etc - how does THAT fit with Health and Safety rules..

If you're fed up with it - complain to the local paper and your MP about waste, collectable heritage being trashed etc....they love this sort of story and the Local Authority will HATE it...
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 1:36 pm   #11
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

My take on all this, and of course it is purely my opinion, is that it is morally wrong to destroy viable items if they can, in any sensible way whatsoever, to be restored and re-used instead of filling up the ever increasing mountains of landfill.

There is nothing wrong here with the resident tip collectors from loading up a pile of stuff and offering it at the next car boot, apart from us not having first refusal.

Sure - there is a safety aspect, but methinks that we are tilting at windmills here. Is there an instance anywhere of an electrical item liberated from a tip causing injury to anyone? Thought not. Even if there was, where do the council tip staff come into it? If I pick up a brick or lump of iron from the tip and drop it on my head, can I sue the council?

We cannot be totally absolved from common sense and neither can we blame the other person with our misdoings. That, despite (a) what the nannies in Westminster say and (b) the fact that there are those without any common sense. Or could we combine (a) and (b)?
</ >
My strimmer from a car boot for £3, complete with mains lead, still gives good service! I'll shut up now.
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 6:06 pm   #12
Brian R Pateman
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

When I lived in Halifax the local tip was quite reasonable.

What may have helped was that the chap who was usually in charge used to be the yardman where I used to work - very convenient!

I haven't seen anything worth having at the local tip where I live now. It is one of those where most stuff goes straight into a compactor as there is very little space there.

Regards,
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 6:19 pm   #13
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Have to agree with Paul, posting above. If you see something worth having why not just take it? Be careful not to leave the dump with more stuff than you had when you arrived though, that's not what they are meant for
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 7:32 pm   #14
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Ok! So I can see I'm in a minority of one on this, my friends!
Yes, I certainly do agree that it is extremely annoying (to put it mildly) to see something that:
(a) you know you can "do something with";
(b) make your contribution towards re-cycling / greener planet;
(c) have the chance to get 'one in the eye' of a jobsworth!

However, ~ having read the replies ~ I stil feel that my viewpoints have not been logically contradicted!

Taking some replies one at a time:

From paulsherwin:
" . . . the sensible approach is to allow the staff leeway to make a judgment based on the nature of the item and the age and apparent experience of the scrounger".
Problem here Paul is "apparent experience of the scrounger". How is the "man" going to make this assessment? Is he qualified to do this anyway?
I like the concept - but I just don't think its feasible, Paul.

From Paul_RK:
" . . becomes a peril in the hands of anyone who sets about trying to repair it without paying due heed to his competence or lack thereof for the task".
Change "his competance" to "his believed competance", and my earlier post stands.

From sparkie:
". . . who promptly sell it for a nice profit at the following Saturday boot fair, untested, with mains plugs and leads, petrol still in mowers, air in scuba cylinders etc etc - how does THAT fit with Health and Safety rules?"
How do you know that the organisation who have bought these scrap items from the local authority tip have NOT tested them?

From Mike Phelan:
"There is nothing wrong here with the resident tip collectors from loading up a pile of stuff and offering it at the next car boot . . ."
Depends on your definition of "wrong". If the Employment Terms and Conditions of the tip employees forbid them from doing this, then obviously it is "wrong".

From ColinB:
"If you see something worth having why not just take it?"
Apart from H & S reasons (as aforementioned), the simple answer to this one is that the Item - at that point in its "life" - is the property of the Local Authority. The word "theft" applies.

However, one thing I'm not sure of. When the Local Authority sell a bulk load of scrap to the contractor, does the received monies not contribute towards keeping down the dreaded Council Tax?

And thanks for all those replies! (And I wasn't the OP!)

Regards to all

Al / G8DLH
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 7:48 pm   #15
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8DLH View Post

From sparkie:
". . . who promptly sell it for a nice profit at the following Saturday boot fair, untested, with mains plugs and leads, petrol still in mowers, air in scuba cylinders etc etc - how does THAT fit with Health and Safety rules?"

How do you know that the organisation who have bought these scrap items from the local authority tip have NOT tested them?
Because I know both of these dealers and they DON'T test (or guarantee) any of the gear - oddly enough I wouldn't have put UNTESTED in the quote above if I wasn't sure of this......and the idea that someone who takes a piece of junk from a rubbish dump can be thought of as a thief beggars belief...
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 7:52 pm   #16
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8DLH View Post
However, one thing I'm not sure of. When the Local Authority sell a bulk load of scrap to the contractor, does the received monies not contribute towards keeping down the dreaded Council Tax?
They normally pay the contractor to take the stuff away. Various contractors will submit tenders for this, and the contract will go to the one that will do it for the lowest fee. This means that the cost to the authority is minimised, so in that sense the council tax is kept down.

The vast majority of contractors don't recycle electronic items in the way that we would expect. The more reputable companies compact everything, then shred it and extract ferrous metal, aluminium, silver etc. by various means, dumping the rest in landfill as hazardous waste. The real cowboy operators stick everything in containers and ship it off to China or India, where it is dismantled by hand by poverty stricken people in filthy and dangerous conditions.

All this counts as 'recycling' as far as the local authority is concerned and helps it reach its government targets.

Paul
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 7:59 pm   #17
Skywave
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkie View Post
Because I know both of these dealers and they DON'T test (or guarantee) any of the gear - oddly enough I wouldn't have put UNTESTED in the quote above if I wasn't sure of this......and the idea that someone who takes a piece of junk from a rubbish dump can be thought of as a thief beggars belief...
Really? I believe you, of course! But I am really, really surprised!
As regards "theft" - yes, I agree - it is quite ridiculous - but (by my understanding) that's the way the Law is framed.

Al / G8DLH
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 8:11 pm   #18
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

H[

Whilst I agree with G8DLH about removing *stuff" from a tip without paying,I do have paper qualifications, have had them accepted by a previous contractor, and would be willing to produce them again.
What about a legal release form absolving the site staff, contractor and local authority against any injury or damage the goods may cause ?


ALAN
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 8:12 pm   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
They normally pay the contractor to take the stuff away.
Paul
"They (the Local Authority) pay the contractor . . . ."
Really? OK - as you say, this helps towards the C.Tax - but I stand enlightened!

BTW #1 With the vast numbers of immigrants in this country on mimimal wages doing agricultural work, you'd have thought that it would have been worth while the L.A. employing some of them to do the salvage work - and then sell the scrap metal, etc. to the "contractor"; no?)
However - Thank you for your enlightenment

BTW #2 As for dumping our waste in other peoples's backyards (aka countries), I am aware of this "practice", and IMHO it is really Quite Out Of Order - but then so is this country's nasty habit of processing nuclear waste from other countries . . . But let's not develop that . . . otherwise we will be going well OT.

Regards, Al / G8DLH
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Old 10th Aug 2006, 8:19 pm   #20
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Default Re: Local Rubbish Tips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALANS ANITAS View Post
What about a legal release form absolving the site staff, contractor and local authority against any injury or damage the goods may cause ?
I don't believe these releases are legal now. The law was changed some time ago. Any company supplying anything to the general public has irrevokable legal liabilities.

I remember you used to be able to buy cars from dealers on 'trade terms', i.e. with no implied warranty whatsoever, but legitimate dealers will no longer do this for members of the public because the 'trade terms' agreement can't be enforced and the customer can return with a trading standards officer complaining about being sold a deathtrap. I'm not sure how car auctions get away with it - maybe they're legally considered to be 'trade only'

Paul

Last edited by paulsherwin; 10th Aug 2006 at 8:24 pm.
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