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Old 26th Jan 2023, 10:56 am   #21
stevehertz
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

I also use anything by the Eagles or Steely Dan, both of whom were absolute sticklers for attaining high standards of fidelity in their recordings.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 12:09 pm   #22
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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Very interesting. I had read that the canon shots had been reduced to make the record easier to track, particularly to reduce subsonic frequencies. Mine is a fairly new copy so this is probably the case with it. It comes with a warning about ensuring the cartridge is set up correctly and not overloading the amp or speakers. I doubt that it would damage the amp as such but distortion arising might damage the speakers.

I am definitely going to acquire that Decca LP.
It's interesting. I suspect any tweak of the recording might actually have been twofold: firstly to drop the cannon level a bit overall, say 2-3dB, and simultaneously to filter off some HF from the cannon, rather than low frequencies.

Low frequency = gentle excursion of the groove (albeit a big excursion in this case), whereas HF would be steep. Guns are typically both broad-spectrum noise and loud. The trick in the original mastering would probably have been to creep the overall level down well before the crescendo leading up to the cannon, so that there was ample space on the actual disc for the excursion.

We used to do the equivalent in TV dramas to get the most from gunshots - creep the overall mix level down, maybe 2-to-3dB, over, say, a minute or more before the shot. We also used to line the equipment up very carefully: BBC "PPM 6" was the official maximum loudness, which is 8dB above line-up tone level. The actual transmitters, both radio and TV, IIRC, had protection limiters in front of them at +10dB, giving 2dB extra headroom before the boss got a call from an annoyed manager because a transmitter alarm had gone off (and anyway, transmitter limiters were brutal - primarily designed to prevent damage from clipping both there and in receivers*).

Boss: "Telecine tell me your mix exceeded '6' in several places!"
Me: "Yes, but we were under the limiter - was there a problem with their line-up?"
Boss (grinning): "Yes well, you know I have to tell you not to do it again..."

The other trick we used was encouraging gunshot distortion, usually by re-recording it too loud, then playing-in the distorted recording at a sensible level. You can also overlay several recordings, slightly spaced in time, and playback at slower speed than normal to make the sound longer and lower. We also had an electronic "BBC gunshot generator" but it wasn't remotely convincing.

*I know TV was FM so it would've been over-deviation which isn't quite as serious, but on long and medium wave (AM) clipping could be damaging to the transmitters.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 2:34 pm   #23
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

Very Interesting posts, particularly from Simondm.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 3:00 pm   #24
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

Fascinating. Now you mention it there does seem to be a lack of higher frequencies in the cannon shots
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 5:35 pm   #25
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

I have been using this ...
Ennio Morricone - Sergio Leone Greatest Western Music of All Time
Which has a lot of dynamics, but most importantly lots of plinky high range piano and whistling. I have found that that can be the part of the sound spectrum a tube amp can struggle with.
I have recently built an amp that must have some supersonic frequencies because I just cannot listen to it for very long from a CD. I played one of my favourite youtube experiences ...
Vulcan howl
... and I had to turn it off because the white noise overloaded my senses in some way.

For music from youtube, with the restricted range of frequencies and compression, it sounds very nice.

So, I guess what I am interested in is how these recordings are used to evaluate the equipment. Is it by ear, or are they designed to be measured too?
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 6:06 pm   #26
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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... most importantly lots of plinky high range piano and whistling ...
This is the plinkiest thing I know. You get female voice too, which can be very revealing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9hRj4TzIfA

Cheers,

GJ

(For the record it's Youn Sun Nah's recording of My Favorite Things, sung with kalimba accompaniment.)
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 6:37 pm   #27
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

Not really something to listen to and play but for CD I have a few Hi-Fi News and Record Review test CDs, they have orchestral tracks in addition to a wide range of test tracks.
There is a vinyl version (without music I think) and aimed at test tracks for a turntable.

The CD has the amazing Garage Door track, turn up the volume and scare your friends.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 7:21 pm   #28
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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The LP of "A walk across the rooftops" is superbly well recorded and pressed. Linn records and I think,but am not 100% sure, that my original pressing is all analogue in keeping with Linns ethos at the time.
It helps of course that I think the musical content is good too.....................
Yes, when I dumped 99% of my CDs during a house-move in 2001, the Blue Nile's CD was one of the handfull I kept.

And yes it's the Linn original version. Like you say, well-engineered and smoothly recorded. These days the only place I have that can play CDs is my older car [but it does have a 690-Watt Meridian-audio system with more-speakers-than-I-have-toes-and-fingers so I can get to enjoy myself when I go out for a drive].

I suspect that these days there are plenty of people who have better access to 'Hi-Fi' audio in their cars than they have in their houses.

Which makes traditional ideas of recording balance catering to and embracing the expected listening-environment an interesting philosophical exercise.

I'll hang on to my Linn CD, though I don't expect it will ever appreciate in value to the point where it will pay my care-home costs.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 7:35 pm   #29
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

The only purpose-made demonstration disc I possess (except, I may have a late '30s Marconi one somewhere) is a 1999 issue accompanying the Bose Wave radio/CD: a six minute introduction including varius sound effects, followed by a mixture of tracks alternating Massenet, Saint-Saens, Bizet and Scarlatti with US pop/country/soft rock (something like that, anyway: nothing I recognise). I've never heard very much of it. If any part of the domestic system changes, which doesn't happen often, I just find myself inwardly noting what may have been gained or lost over my next couple of weeks' listening, which is likely to be a more intensive couple of weeks than usual if I'm agreeably surprised by what I hear.

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Old 26th Jan 2023, 7:35 pm   #30
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

For a good bass test, 'bad guy' by Billie eilish, particularly the last third of the song which I generally skip straight to. It's not on vinyl though I imagine
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 8:09 pm   #31
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

I have had the great pleasure of listening to various performers and orchestras in various concerts venues during my younger days, no microphones used to enhance voice or instruments. I have also a collection of same performers on records, mostly mono.
When I play my records through my modest system I immediately notice the difference, well I would wouldn’t I!.
My point being I have become accustomed to this recorded sound and accept it, how many folk, I wonder , would be surprised at the difference listening to a “ live” performance to their record/ system reproduction?
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 8:18 pm   #32
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

I seem to remember it being said that the BBC used The Teddy Bears' Picnic as a test record in the '30s. I don't know how true it is. It does have a wide frequency range for a record from that time
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 8:20 pm   #33
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

Sadly my ears have packed in but pink floyd dark side of the moon and certain dire straits tracks like private investigations were pretty good for overall system performance, for just the record deck the shure audio obstacle course would be brought out.
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 9:35 pm   #34
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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I seem to remember it being said that the BBC used The Teddy Bears' Picnic as a test record in the '30s. I don't know how true it is. It does have a wide frequency range for a record from that time
It was true.

Only the other day my colleagues and I were remarking how many hi-fi systems must have been demonstrated to Sade's Diamond Life, or Grace Jones's Slave To The Rhythm...
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 9:37 pm   #35
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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Sadly my ears have packed in but pink floyd dark side of the moon and certain dire straits tracks like private investigations were pretty good for overall system performance, for just the record deck the shure audio obstacle course would be brought out.
Greg.
It was demonstrated to us that Private Investigations actually has very little dynamic range...
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Old 26th Jan 2023, 10:35 pm   #36
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

If you want the entire production in the analogue domain i.e. AAA you will need to choose
a recording made before the mid 80's when digital mastering e.g. DASH became the norm.
The pressing itself needs to be faultless too.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 12:12 am   #37
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
For a good bass test, 'bad guy' by Billie eilish, particularly the last third of the song which I generally skip straight to. It's not on vinyl though I imagine
The album with it on certainly is

https://shopuk.billieeilish.com/*/Mu...YL/61I31XG3000

The vinyl is yellow though.

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 9:46 am   #38
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

Long pieces of Classical music on vinyl tend to suffer more from compression than other forms of recorded music and as such would make poor test records I would imagine.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 9:49 am   #39
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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Originally Posted by Restoration73 View Post
If you want the entire production in the analogue domain i.e. AAA you will need to choose
a recording made before the mid 80's when digital mastering e.g. DASH became the norm.
The pressing itself needs to be faultless too.
If you are using a hyper elliptical stylus as I do you would have to put up with the odd click or two but be rewarded by otherwise excellent reproduction on your chosen test record.
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Old 27th Jan 2023, 10:41 am   #40
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Default Re: Favourite Hi-Fi system test LP

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Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
I seem to remember it being said that the BBC used The Teddy Bears' Picnic as a test record in the '30s. I don't know how true it is. It does have a wide frequency range for a record from that time

My father had that record and I recall him saying it was a good test. I think the band was Henry Hall's. The label was Columbia.
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