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Old 9th Jan 2022, 10:54 am   #21
vinrads
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

I am pleased that I did my loft conversion some thirty years ago , when I say conversion I installed a floating floor ,7"x2" joists one side on hangers the other end through a hole in the internal wall ,these are 12foot long and were threaded through the bathroom window which lined up nicely with the loft hole ,finished off with 22mm chipboard floor, the best thing I ever did , the trouble is now as I am getting to the age where I need to get rid of a load of stuff .Mick.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:17 pm   #22
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

In most lofts, the beams that you see in between the insulation are what the ceiling is attached to, these aren't structurally load bearing and shouldn't have anything placed on top of them. Instead look out for the structural beams (much bigger beams), which will span from the brick walls either side, there'll be fewer of them, maybe three or so, but these can be used to build a supporting floor frame and then boarded on top of.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:28 pm   #23
David Simpson
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

To get a full assesment & subsequent advice from those of us who have building qualifications & experience(on top of radio/electronics), perhaps you could take some pictures of your loft. Also - measure the length of unsupported spans of the ceiling joists. Plus also measure the sizes of the joists & their spacing. E.g. good old 2"x 6"(50 x 150mm)'s redwood or pitch-pine spaced at 16"(400mm) centres in an "A framed" loft(not the cheapo "W" trusses made with 40mm x 120mm w/w o/s timber) - will take a fair few cwt carefully spread out over proper T & G flooring.
The above mentioned bog-standard "W" trusses don't really lend themselves to much storage, access & loading-wise.
As others have said - load-bearing walls, decent ventilation, full felting between tiles or slates & the sarking - all are important factors. One very important factor - certainly for folk approaching or past 3 score years & ten - safe access! Wooden step-ladders & even Ramsey ladders, are a twot to safely climb almost vertically carrying a heffing heavy Murphy U128 or large telly.
Some older roofs structures have - Purlins, King Posts, Gussets, high or low Collars - all of which can determine access, flooring & loading, etc.

Regards, David
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:57 pm   #24
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

I boarded over the joists in my roof with inch thick particle board (glass wool insulation below it) and use it for light storage with those plastic boxes (we call them rolling orgnaisors in NZ not sure what the UK terms is) - we have a good roof ladder to get up there. No problems to date.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 1:00 pm   #25
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

This discussion does make me nervous as I have a lot of 'junk' and some tools up the attic and some of it is quite heavy, I was thinking of flooring some areas with loft boards on loft legs.

The house was built mid 1950s and I think the woodwork is along the following design: https://www.labc.co.uk/news/my-dad-t...a-roof-trusses
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 2:05 pm   #26
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Here's some span tables for timber joists, selectable for C16 and C24 strength classes, C16 would be the most common.

The imposed load not to exceed 1.5kN/per square metre.

0.25 to 0.5 kN/per square metre dead load should cover most common types of construction.

https://www.timberbeamcalculator.co....ope=0&load=1.5

Lawrence.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 3:11 pm   #27
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Aye wireman, you're probably pushing your luck to add any significant loading to your TDA(TRADA) factory built trusses. Loading on each multi-element joint is subject to Bowe's Notation, and the whole structure is designed just for expected self weight and wind/snow loading for the roofing, plus supporting the weight of the plasterboard ceiling below.
I've still got my TRADA Timber Frame Design Guide from the 1970's(nigh-on 3 heffing inches thick) somewhere, and could possibly check measurements against tables.
With such truss construction, maybe, just maybe, a small area in front of a gable wall(if it is brick or dense concrete block) could be floored over two 400mm spaced spans, with angular supports taken down to the thin joists(completing a triangle, loading-wise). But then, a lot of trap-doors are placed centrally, & one would still need to negotiate a number of verticle/semi-verticle posts. (Carrying an 1154 ? - - nah, nah !).

Regards, David
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 3:27 pm   #28
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Some truss loading figures in here on page 4 for ceiling tie and attic trusses:

https://www.trada.co.uk/media/13325/...ical-guide.pdf

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Old 9th Jan 2022, 6:58 pm   #29
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Simpson View Post
Aye wireman, you're probably pushing your luck to add any significant loading to your TDA(TRADA) factory built trusses. Loading on each multi-element joint is subject to Bowe's Notation, and the whole structure is designed just for expected self weight and wind/snow loading for the roofing, plus supporting the weight of the plasterboard ceiling below.
...
Thanks, I'll need to get someone to look at it. The load is already up the attic and loft boards (9 packs of 3) were put up 8 months ago in preparation but spread around nearer the eves in packs of 3 (15kg). I'll at least check that there is no load concentrated too much in one area.

Last edited by wireman; 9th Jan 2022 at 7:09 pm.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 9:33 pm   #30
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Sorry, but I fear that there are so many variables here that it is impossible to advise remotely, not least of which are construction of the roof/ceiling, quality, position and type of insulation, type and quantlty of the ventilation etc etc. Obviously if the weight can be got onto the walls, then all well and good
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 11:23 pm   #31
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Yes, that is fair comment. If you're planning to store anything nontrivial in an unmodified loft, you need to take professional advice. It's OK to store a few boxes of valves up there, or a few domestic radios, but once you start thinking about tellies or comms receivers you really need to take a step back.

My earlier rule of thumb about one person being able to carry things up a loft ladder applies.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 11:50 pm   #32
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Smile Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Yes, that is fair comment. If you're planning to store anything nontrivial in an unmodified loft, you need to take professional advice. It's OK to store a few boxes of valves up there, or a few domestic radios, but once you start thinking about tellies or comms receivers you really need to take a step back.

My earlier rule of thumb about one person being able to carry things up a loft ladder applies.
Agreed Paul. I wouldn’t risk my AR88, which would in any case need a serious block & tackle system to get it up there.

I’ve also noticed the frustrating problem of ageing: kit which was easy to take up in the loft a few years ago does now seem to have become more difficult to bring down again.

Does anyone know of a loft ladder which incorporates a Stannah stair lift ?

Martin
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 9:46 am   #33
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Having filled my own loft and am thinking of sorting it ... I used an assortment of boards to spread weight, but this leaves gaps you cannot see and areas you cannot use, so it is worth scrounging/purchase of boards and covering more carefully, noting and possibly re routing cables - mark their position above. Organise storage, possibly in to shelving units and aisles, not into piles as I have, that can collapse! Make sure you can see what is there or after a few years it becomes pointless! Use dust covers. When the attic gets full and you find yourself storing downstairs instead try to find time to review, or it just becomes a dead weight.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 11:27 am   #34
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

This is prompting some thought with me to sort out what I have in the loft. There's not too much, but what is in there is there for a reason, it's not being used or referred to, so I think a big clear out is due this year.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 11:44 am   #35
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

One other point to consider is whether there is light leakage through from the eaves at the extreme edges of the loft, and whether what you are storing may be affected by UV exposure in the long term. I'm thinking especially of light coloured plastic items.

I stored a pristine Atari STe computer - original colour light battleship grey - in the largely unused second loft of our house but I put it quite far back towards the eaves with one end pointing towards the eaves.

When I took it out many years later to do some checks on it I was disappointed to find that it had suffered sun yellowing at one end only due to the low but constant daylight leaking through the eaves at that end. I may be able to recover it by 'retrobriting' but the need could have been avoided if I had only put some sort of cover over it.

Another danger area, not necessarily confined to lofts, is if you store equipment boxed in its original polystyrene shells with the PVC cables just thrown in loose (not bagged). Over time the cables can react with the polystyrene and weld to it and it makes a right mess of the cables, so don't store anything with PVC cables in physical contact with polystyrene shells.

And - I think it goes without saying really - anything going into long term storage should have all batteries removed from it. Even internal PCB mounted ones (Nicad, NiMH, etc) can cause the demise of an otherwise pristine piece of equipment if you are not careful.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 11:57 am   #36
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

As for the structural and electrical area in the loft , seek professional help first because you will
be adding weight and lighting to see by not to mention possibly covering up wiring, get pro advice first.
The degrading fiberglass is terrible in fact any fiberglass is terrible , wear appropriate safety gear.

As for the environment, it is hostile to anything as its open to temperatures, humidity and pest invasions .
Cardboard and paper will succumb, over time Metals will corrode and rust over time.
Store in plastic boxes (much better for stacking weight) and use archive material i think mylar sleeves and acid free archive boxes, not cheap from archival suppliers.
As for components and equipment, store in plastic food sealed boxes, like whitefurze they come in different volumes.
If you intend regular visits aloft fit a dedicated loft ladder and hinge the loft cover and have an electrician fit a couple of large fluroescents with safety covers, last thing you want is a busted tube.
Again the fiberglass was always a turn off . Humping gear through a small hatch is tedious and can be dangerous, been there ! a helper is always a good idea.
Again get professional advice first !
Good luck.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 2:32 pm   #37
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

A more philosophical question is: if things are being wrapped up in order to be placed out of view in a reasonably inaccessible place, what are they being kept for?
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 3:01 pm   #38
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

I find an essential addition to our loft has been effective lighting, both for safety (ie not treading where I mustn’t) and to facilitate finding stuff.

I have half a dozen or so 100W lamps suspended from the roof trusses, plus three 40W fluorescent fittings in areas that would otherwise be cast into shadow. These are all operated from a pendant switch hanging within easy reach of the access trapdoor. One advantage of a loft is that it provides easy access to the upstairs lighting circuit.

Martin
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 3:45 pm   #39
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Lofts may be a handy place to store stuff but they are also a good residence for all sorts of living-things.

Woodworm - make sure your 'stuff' is worm-free before you put it in the loft, or you may be importing futire structural issues. Works the other way round - if you already have worms/death-watch-beetle then they can infest the 'stuff' you have put up there. There's also things like Book-lice and Museum-beetles which rather like old-fashioned animal-based glue.

Rats/Mice - love to nibble; their teeth grow continually so gnawing is necessary to wear them down. Wood, rubber, plastic - all can be gnawed. When I bought my house I found the 32A cable to the cooker had been stripped of its insulation over a length of about a foot. How Mr. Ratty managed to do this without electrocuting himself I never figured out.
Mice can fit through truly tiny gaps - allegedly they can dislocate their shoulders to make them slimmer! A 3/4-inch hole and they're through! Then they gnaw/pee/poo on everything!

Squirrels: if they get into your attic they make one hell of a mess. Picking up a piece of kit and finding it to contain about a cubic-foot of chewed nut-shells mixed with squirrel-dung is not fun. Again they'll destroy wiring. loft-insulation, pipe-lagging if they get the chance.

Traps for these critters are worth deploying, as is bait - but if you use traps please don't use the horrible 'glue' things because they cause a truly horrible, prolonged death.
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Old 10th Jan 2022, 5:35 pm   #40
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Default Re: Storage in loft spaces?

Not to mention those horrible silver fish, and wasp nests .
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