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Old 3rd May 2020, 3:03 pm   #41
AJSmith625
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

With reference to post 37 by Michael Maurice, I am pretty sure it is the same company I decided to leave in 1987. I had been quite happy there for many years until the takeover by another company about 18 months before. All was well for a time then working conditions began to drastically change. As said by Michael, weekly targets were increased to a level which I could not keep up with with, and many other things which were changing started to make me feel very unhappy. So I decided to jump before I was pushed. I know I did the right thing as reading several letters in Television Magazine in the months and years afterwards proved this. I soon got another job with a small independent radio & tv shop here in S.E. Birmingham and was much happier.

Alan.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 3:03 pm   #42
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Angry Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

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Originally Posted by Chris55000 View Post
…unfortunately I didn't get round to joining Unite before this mishap occurred. Obviously, a unionised workplace won't save your job if you commit an act of gross misconduct… but they would certainly have reined in the nonsense I've had imposed on me, I'm sure!
I am putting this to the test at the moment since, on Monday, my manager summoned me and issued me with a 'Performance Improvement Plan' out of nowhere (which they wanted me to sign there and then)! This seems to be at an informal stage, at the moment, but I've discussed it with my Unite representative and we've made a plan.

I joined a union after previous employer shenanigans of this nature. Politics aside, it just makes you feel less alone if you have to deal with this kind of corporate aggression.

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Originally Posted by Chris55000 View Post
…I have long suspected that the "blame culture" and "elf and safety" have been allowed to supervene over impartial and fair decisions!
I'd disagree with you on this, Chris! Improvements around Health and Safety at work, while sometimes extremely tedious, have been beneficial for all, I would say.

I wonder if we're going to be seeing more of this sort of thing. I suspect, economically, things may be about to get even worse for many companies, and they're going to be taking the opportunity to hang any transgressions on anyone to make it easier to get rid of staff should the need arise. Despicable, if true - and all the more reason to join a trade union.

You have my sympathy and best wishes for a good outcome.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 3:35 pm   #43
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

The people I've come across in the TV/Radio repair trade have skills beyond a mental database of known problems, they are clear-thinking and can follow a trail of causation.

These are valuable abilities in many other fields.

I hope those of you in such bad firms find something much better. Let those bosses see how good they are at diagnosing and fixing faults. Learning what a circuit diagram is, let alone reading one might be too much of an uphill battle. Some firms can't recognise good managers when they meet one, and instead hire and promote people based on aggression. Aggressive people never have the self control to think things through, and the companies never work out what these people cost them.

My very best hopes for all in this sort of fix.

David
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Old 3rd May 2020, 3:58 pm   #44
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

If they want to throw the book at you..then you can use a bit of health and safety back on them .ie why was a plastic socket in the vicinity of hot soldering irons? surely it was not 'risk assessed' properly? as it should have been metal shielded as the soldering iron holder is not a perfect design regarding safety.
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Old 3rd May 2020, 4:18 pm   #45
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
The people I've come across in the TV/Radio repair trade have skills beyond a mental database of known problems, they are clear-thinking and can follow a trail of causation.

These are valuable abilities in many other fields.

I hope those of you in such bad firms find something much better. Let those bosses see how good they are at diagnosing and fixing faults. Learning what a circuit diagram is, let alone reading one might be too much of an uphill battle. Some firms can't recognise good managers when they meet one, and instead hire and promote people based on aggression. Aggressive people never have the self control to think things through, and the companies never work out what these people cost them.

My very best hopes for all in this sort of fix.


David
David, this is so true that, in a senior moment, it had me searching for the <like> button!

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Old 3rd May 2020, 4:59 pm   #46
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

I used it just the once. I had a very senior engineer with me at the meeting with my line manager, and a hr rep. They knew exactly where I was coming from. They were guided by the HR manager, regarding my dispute over pay for a one day holiday. I was ruled against.
I immediately escalated to next level.
It was soon agreed my case was proven and my pay was reinstated fully.
My "evidence" was the actual law as from UK.gov website!! I had forwarded the link to HR manager before starting grievance procedure to give them an escape route so as not to lose face.
Some management just cannot believe that a lesser employee can know exactly what he is talking about. This is what caused my denial of pay in the first place and led to my opening a grievance dispute.
Chris, don't give up!
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Old 3rd May 2020, 10:07 pm   #47
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

Chris, the one thing you have not said is this "Do you want to stay there?" By that, I mean in a paying job at a time when not having it could be a serious problem. If you do want to stay, write down every relevant part of this thread, and put it away in case you need to start a wrongful dismissal claim at a future date. Since you have not admitted to actually knocking the iron over, time to deny that you did. You can cite all the breaches of employment law should that time arise. In the meanwhile, just keep your head down.
In another thread, you mentioned getting some scanning (or similar) done at work. Don't!! You MAY have already had your card marked for something such as that.
Keep your wits about you and produce work that is above reproach. During my various careers, I had one company make me redundant after I had sorted all the problems nobody else could fix. Next a small shop went bust, so on to the next one. A most unpleasant place to work. Three years, then I managed to sell my cottage, and escape back to the island.
No fun when work places are run by nasties.
Les.

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Old 3rd May 2020, 10:32 pm   #48
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

Evening Les!

Yes, perhaps I ought to have added that point!

The answer is yes, because I enjoy and take pleasure in the work I do, to the extent of taking pictures of difficult jobs home, or, where scrap items are available, taking the scrap home and "reverse engineering" circuit diagrams from these in my leisure time to help other colleagues! – and returning the scrap afterwards.

It isn't so much a case of "do I want to stay there", but my eyes have forced a situation on me where I have to rely on my friend to drive me there, (who works on the bench behind me doing the same work) and I reckon there are virtually no other employers doing this type of work for at least a 50 mile radius, and if I was unlucky enough to lose my job, at 59 that would be it for me, so it's not a case of "do I want to stay there", circumstances mean I'm virtually compelled to and I suspect my manager realises this!

Many redundancies in the past have left me with no savings (I have never owned my home because I didn't get a full–time paid job until my 30s and banks wouldn't entertain a mortgage on my circumstances at the time) I could rely on to be able to retire early, my sister says I should but financially there's no chance!

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Old 4th May 2020, 10:52 am   #49
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

The electronics jobs market is getting a bit desperate for people at the moment. I'm getting more than a dozen cold contacts per week. Not bad at 66 years old (though my mental age is a lot younger!). They're mostly from recruitment firms desperate for cannon fodder that fits some spec they've been given, but also from large firms contacting me directly. There may be lots more going on than you've noticed.

It sounds like you are strongly enamoured with the nature of your job, just not with the company. Travel would be needed to somewhere in the same field, right. But you aren't tied to that field. Your skills are applicable in other areas and if you have the dedication and skills to take things home to reverse engineer them in your own time, you could be just the sort of person some firm out ther would be appreciative of.

These sorts of bullying firms act to destroy people's confidence in themselves. It makes the job of bullying so much easier.

The big shrinkage of electronics with all the consumer stuff manufacturing having gone elsewhere has happened, it is complete. There is some coming back as problems are discovered in operating at such distance (culturally as well as geographically) and there are niche products that don't fit well with Chinese manufacturing ... too little turnover, too much skilled manual input, too specialised.

While the exodus was on, skilled electronics engineers were being dumped in hordes. Jobs were short.

Universities have now closed many courses, fewer young engineers are being trained. The pendulum has swung the other way and there is a shortage. Recruitment activity has surged in the past couple of years and the small number of students prepared to take on a notoriously difficult subject aren't enough to go round.

Keep your head down until the current pandemic is clear, and then start looking. Be careful to not do anything which could be used against you.

Find a job that is equally attractive, working for people you like.

The current lot are exploiting your reluctance to move. If you seem too settled, you get taken for granted and get treated like crap. I've been in that fix. I was too anchored right up until a change in company direction resulted in all the hardware people being made redundant. It was fun afterwards hearing all the difficulties they ran into unable to do the things I did for them. You only get appreciated after you've gone and by then it's too late.
"Hire the best people, then trust them to want to do a good job" A quote from Dave Packard. A hard nosed businessman and a fine humanitarian. Proof they are not mutually exclusive.

David
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Old 4th May 2020, 1:19 pm   #50
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

I’ve been unfortunate enough to work for a few of these sort of ‘managers’ before, they really need shooting in my opinion!

From what I have read so far, this was purely an accident, and what’s more, there is no evidence that it was you (unless like one of my ex-employers, there are CCTV cameras watching your every move..), or did the manager actually see you knock it over? If so why didn’t he say something straight away?! How do you know it wasn’t actually the manager that knocked it over! Shift the blame onto them, if they want to fight, call HSE and report it as an unsafe working environment!

I hope it all works out in your favour!

Regards
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Old 4th May 2020, 1:25 pm   #51
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

Hi!

Cheers David! I have to confess I've heard so much from close colleagues who claim our market is "dead", that I've lost sight of the external recruitment scene, and I hadn't realised that things are starting to swing back again – if you're still getting plenty of external interest, there's no reason why I shouldn't be!

Assuming the ultimate sanction (dismissal) isn't imposed, the next thing would be to try and get my eye surgery followed up so I don't have to be driven everywhere by my friend, then get onto recruitment companies asap afterwards!

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Old 4th May 2020, 1:33 pm   #52
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

PS!

Lloyd, there's no CCTV "spies" in the building and no immediate witnesses to the accident to the best of my belief – in fact I wasn't aware myself of it until I was shown the damage at 6 a.m. the following morning, and in fact I'm not exactly aware myself just how it could have happened!

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Old 4th May 2020, 3:29 pm   #53
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

Two of my progeny are Managers in their respective occupations. They are regularly contacted by recruitment agencies, you just have to cast your net. The agencies are just as keen as the employers to find good workers (as distinct from shirkers, they're 10 a penny)
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Old 4th May 2020, 6:41 pm   #54
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

Lots of interest, and I'm not even looking.

Linked-in seems to raise a lot of contacts, so it's worth going on there. You can have me as one of your contacts, and there may be others hereabouts who would join me.

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Old 4th May 2020, 7:04 pm   #55
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

One side issue to being sent home or suspended- is that you don't get to see that all the desktop sockets have been replaced with steel ones, or be told of the new procedure to cease all hotwork 1 hour before the facility closes. I would place a bet that one or both of these precautions will be put in place.

My own feeling is that the manager who has sent the OP home is probably scared of getting a rollicking- so is over-reacting by passing the blame downwards. If you are called to a 'meeting' it's vital to seek an advocate even if company policy stipulates that the advocate is only allowed to ask questions and make notes- the mere presence of a third party destabilises the victimisation culture. If Chris was closer I'd offer myself!

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Old 7th May 2020, 3:03 pm   #56
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Afternoon Dave!

Thank you for your kind support!

I have been summoned to attend "disciplinary hearing" on next Tuesday the 12th, and I have also sent the person from h.r. my wish to be accompanied by a colleague of my choice, as is my right under employment law and ACAS guidelines!

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Old 7th May 2020, 3:29 pm   #57
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

It does seem like an extreme over-reaction. No-one was hurt in any way, and there is, I gather no actual evidence that you were the one who knocked it over, also ne evidence that it was in any way other than an accident whoever did it.

Is there any possibility a mains cable got pulled by someone doing something else nearby?

No, I get the feeling there is some other agenda at work.

You might want to get a legal opinion on anything you are asked to sign before you do so, such things may have the effect of dropping you deeper in it or becoming documented admissions of guilt of things you never did. Very difficult to unsign afterwards.

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Old 7th May 2020, 4:23 pm   #58
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

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You might want to get a legal opinion on anything you are asked to sign before you do so
Say "I am taking this to my solicitor first", if you are refused permission to take the document ask what are they hiding? And record the conversation, it isn't a requirement to tell someone that they are being recorded face to face unlike a 'phone call (even that is debatable).
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Old 7th May 2020, 5:40 pm   #59
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Good luck on Tuesday!

Whatever the agenda, I'd say, be as helpful and co-operative as possible - without exposing yourself. If you need the job, you need to be the sort of person your employer wants to keep. That's as far as is tenable of course!

Recording the conversation as MM suggests is a good move, but explain you are doing it.
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Old 7th May 2020, 5:56 pm   #60
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Default Re: Was there any disciplinary procedures in British R & TV factories?

There are probably a lot of employers looking to cut their headcount at the moment. Anything that saves having to make redundancy payments to those who would qualify will seem attractive to them, especially in the present situation where visits to the CAB etc aren't possible. And one hopes that any interview will be carried out in an office that's not too small to have a colleague present, given current proximity restrictions...
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