Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

cathy_vintage · 12th Oct 2016, 7:54 am

Hi Ash here.

Did anyone in the early 90's use Hewlett Packard's HP Vee Visual Programming Language? I did and still use it today in it's current 9.32 release (it went over to Agilent and is now Keysight). It's a really powerful tool but much overshadowed by NI's aggressive marketing of LabView, which I tried and found wasn't nearly as intuitive and VERY expensive (not that VEE was particularly cheap). NI's tack was to entice students with it at very low cost, then once 'hooked' and in employment after graduating, to sell them the full package, which consisted of a basic package, then lots of expensive add-ons.

Radio Wrangler · 12th Oct 2016, 9:02 am

Enticing universities with free software, and often free class/lab computers to run it on is a common trick in the engineering software business. In the case of simulation software, it gets used to replace a lot of hands-on actual physical experiments. As a result graduates when they leave for their first jobs are almost helpless without the same brand of software available to them. Student licensing no longer applies, and the stuff is priced too high for small companies to afford. Of course, the educational version had all the extensions and toolboxes turned on and they greatly add to the price.

Labview is relatively mild compared to the RF simulation suites.

I've used Vee rather a lot, but no longer have a licence, so my experience was all with versions up to Vee 7. I found it rather good and very useful. Like any such package, the moment you tried to get an interface going, it immediately felt like no-one had ever tried to do that combination of stuff before.

The push for Labview has been so strong that most people are unaware that there even is a competing package.

I used to use Vee to control a benchfull of instruments, and built RS232 interfaces into my FPGAs to control experimental hardware. I used to use it to simulate signal processing as well, and then steadily replace sections with real hardware.

Sadly it's too expensive to justify a personal copy.

David

JohnBHanson · 14th Oct 2016, 12:54 am

I used VEE - and loved it - version 4 or 5. I have tried LabView and had a hard time. Problem is LabView is everywhere.

Radio Wrangler · 14th Oct 2016, 7:58 am

Vee was good. It was done by people who wanted to use it, and this makes a dramatic difference to any software.

I wonder if Stan Bischoff is still with HP/Agilent/Keysight?

David

Mike. Watterson · 14th Oct 2016, 2:24 pm

I hope LT spice continues to be maintained when the deal with ADI is finalised.

julie_m · 14th Oct 2016, 2:58 pm

This is an ever-present danger inherent to proprietary software. And I know this is going to sound all smug and a bit preachy; but these sort of shenanigans are precisely why I literally prefer manual methods over software that is not Open Source.

The only thing that can guarantee that I will not be held to ransom by software, is the Source Code on my own computer.

cathy_vintage · 10th Nov 2016, 10:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

I wonder if Stan Bischoff is still with HP/Agilent/Keysight?

Ash here ... Sorry for late reply David ... Yes Stan still active on the VRF forum, seem to think he's retired now though. I do have his direct email if you ever need it.

MrBungle · 10th Nov 2016, 11:26 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by julie_m

This is an ever-present danger inherent to proprietary software. And I know this is going to sound all smug and a bit preachy; but these sort of shenanigans are precisely why I literally prefer manual methods over software that is not Open Source.

The only thing that can guarantee that I will not be held to ransom by software, is the Source Code on my own computer.

Fully agree with this. I've been screwed a couple of times in this space by Cadence, Xilinx and Dassault. We have a policy of not supporting any commercially languages, of which Vee and LabVIEW would be included. We're trying to eviscerate the remains of Mathematica which crept in a few years back as well but it's hard work moving stuff over to SciPy projects.

As for visual programming languages, I think this is a complete dead end. It's such an impedance mismatch to reality that I don't think it will ever not turn into a mess. Google images for "labview mess" if you want to see what I mean.

I think the only thing that has any promise is Cypress PSoC creator and that is a hybrid solution for designing functional blocks. http://www.cypress.com/products/psoc...nvironment-ide

12th Oct 2016, 7:54 am	#1
cathy_vintage Pentode Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Willerby, East Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 191	Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE Hi Ash here. Did anyone in the early 90's use Hewlett Packard's HP Vee Visual Programming Language? I did and still use it today in it's current 9.32 release (it went over to Agilent and is now Keysight). It's a really powerful tool but much overshadowed by NI's aggressive marketing of LabView, which I tried and found wasn't nearly as intuitive and VERY expensive (not that VEE was particularly cheap). NI's tack was to entice students with it at very low cost, then once 'hooked' and in employment after graduating, to sell them the full package, which consisted of a basic package, then lots of expensive add-ons.

12th Oct 2016, 9:02 am	#2
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,878	Re: Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE Enticing universities with free software, and often free class/lab computers to run it on is a common trick in the engineering software business. In the case of simulation software, it gets used to replace a lot of hands-on actual physical experiments. As a result graduates when they leave for their first jobs are almost helpless without the same brand of software available to them. Student licensing no longer applies, and the stuff is priced too high for small companies to afford. Of course, the educational version had all the extensions and toolboxes turned on and they greatly add to the price. Labview is relatively mild compared to the RF simulation suites. I've used Vee rather a lot, but no longer have a licence, so my experience was all with versions up to Vee 7. I found it rather good and very useful. Like any such package, the moment you tried to get an interface going, it immediately felt like no-one had ever tried to do that combination of stuff before. The push for Labview has been so strong that most people are unaware that there even is a competing package. I used to use Vee to control a benchfull of instruments, and built RS232 interfaces into my FPGAs to control experimental hardware. I used to use it to simulate signal processing as well, and then steadily replace sections with real hardware. Sadly it's too expensive to justify a personal copy. David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

14th Oct 2016, 12:54 am	#3
JohnBHanson Heptode Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Worthing, Sussex, UK. Posts: 661	Re: Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE I used VEE - and loved it - version 4 or 5. I have tried LabView and had a hard time. Problem is LabView is everywhere.

14th Oct 2016, 7:58 am	#4
Radio Wrangler Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Fife, Scotland, UK. Posts: 22,878	Re: Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE Vee was good. It was done by people who wanted to use it, and this makes a dramatic difference to any software. I wonder if Stan Bischoff is still with HP/Agilent/Keysight? David __________________ Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done

14th Oct 2016, 2:24 pm	#5
Mike. Watterson Heptode Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 901	Re: Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE I hope LT spice continues to be maintained when the deal with ADI is finalised.

14th Oct 2016, 2:58 pm	#6
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Does anyone on here use Agilent (now Keysight) VEE This is an ever-present danger inherent to proprietary software. And I know this is going to sound all smug and a bit preachy; but these sort of shenanigans are precisely why I literally prefer manual methods over software that is not Open Source. The only thing that can guarantee that I will not be held to ransom by software, is the Source Code on my own computer. __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.