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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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12th May 2020, 6:36 pm | #41 |
Dekatron
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
This does happen from time to time. One of the most common show-stopping failures on Sinclair ZX81 computers is their keypad membrane, especially in respect of the ribbon cables which connect the keypad membrane to the main PCB, which tends to crumble away.
Up to a certain point in time that was it, game over, unless you replaced the keyboard with something completely non-original. A while ago someone had some new membranes manufactured and they are still being sold many years later. Moreover, the new ones are not only a very close match appearance-wise but actually work rather better as well. I had to buy one myself just recently so I'm grateful for the initiative shown by whoever had them made in the first place. |
12th May 2020, 7:00 pm | #42 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
The problem is, or the question is, are we referring to making stocks of these parts or making them to order? because if it's the former, then the amount of dodgy, 'prone to failure' parts on vintage radios and TVs runs into thousands. A glass dial for a 'nowt special' 50s radio for example. On the other hand, making one offs is very expensive. Yes, I'd love there to be replacements for unobtainable parts, but apart from parts needed for sets such as round Ekcos and the like where 1) there are enough sets 'in need', 2) they are valuable sets, and 3) it is viable to spend a fair amount on a replacement part, then it's always going to be difficult. Kinda like an expert spending 20 hours restoring a plain old vintage radio that's only worth £30 in mint condition. If his hourly rate is only £10/hour ie the charge would be £200, it just doesn't stack up does it?
On the plus side, there are many individuals around who make various replacement parts. The easiest thing to do is simply ask on here, "does anyone know where I can get a replacement back for a Vidor 366A?". And who knows, you may be lucky.
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12th May 2020, 7:04 pm | #43 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
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Best wishes, Alan |
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12th May 2020, 7:06 pm | #44 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Ha ha!, nice one, i think there might already be small scale production of said unobtainium, but you still need very deep pockets to buy them.
Greg..
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12th May 2020, 7:17 pm | #45 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Quote:
I don't really think this is because the market in general was looking for replicas. More because they didn't manage to ramp up production in time. Their first valves did have some problems with microphony and they were still working on that, I believe. Last edited by Maarten; 12th May 2020 at 7:28 pm. |
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12th May 2020, 7:20 pm | #46 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Quote:
Not from the original polyurethane cheese, though. |
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12th May 2020, 7:48 pm | #47 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Thanks for that info, which I will follow up. I think the original ones might have been more durable had they been made from actual cheese.
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12th May 2020, 7:50 pm | #48 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
I've never really understood why it is seemingly so difficult to reverse engineer and manufacture valves that are faithful replicas in all aspects of their performance, of Mullard valves. The guitarist amp market (alone) for the EL34, EL84, ECC81/2/3 and GZ 34 is massive and prepared to pay big money for accurate clones, especially with the name Mullard printed on them. Yes, I know, you can buy new 'Mullard' EL34s, the New Sensor Corporation are using the name, but they don't perform like the originals, nothing does - as yet. Copy blue boxes too.
For those interested: https://www.thetubestore.com/mullard-el34
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12th May 2020, 8:00 pm | #49 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Re #41, correct!
You could always try contacting the rights owner for permission. I guess you could argue that you would be providing them with some free market research to see if it would be worth their while to remanufacture themselves! I was once told that someone had asked GEC for permission to re-print one of their old books on valves. Permission was given to do so, royalty-free, as GEC was no longer interested in valves. I don't know the details, it was before my time there. Last edited by emeritus; 12th May 2020 at 8:07 pm. |
12th May 2020, 8:10 pm | #50 |
Octode
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Of course, it does give OEMs a mechanism for enforcing planned obsolescence - they stop manufacturing the spares, and at the same time can prevent others from doing so by enforcing their 20-year patent. Result - equipment is unrepairable and useless. I'm sure that we can all bring to mind manufacturers that may be doing this - take the DAB radio market, for example. And, of course, they also hold copyright on the service information - which lasts much longer than 20 years.
Mike |
12th May 2020, 8:36 pm | #51 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
If someone does use a patent to keep something off the market, in some circumstances it is possible to have the patent revoked for non-use, or ask the Patent Office for a compulsory licence, which, if granted, would be on a reasonable royalty rate basis. I never had this come up when I was working, but it was a topic often found in professional exams. These remedies are not available for copyright, so no remedy for non-availability of service manuals etc.
Last edited by emeritus; 12th May 2020 at 8:53 pm. |
17th May 2020, 3:23 pm | #52 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Quote:
They have a large complement of test equipment nutters on that forum! |
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17th May 2020, 3:28 pm | #53 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Folks might be interested in watching the Glasslinger youtube channel. He sometimes makes new valves at home.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXAjspPLzRQ
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17th May 2020, 4:02 pm | #54 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
He's one clever guy, don't know what he did in a previous life but it must've been some job!.
Greg.
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17th May 2020, 9:21 pm | #55 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Quote:
As an example of what can be done, I bought 0.1uF 400V and 0.01uF 400V axial capacitors in quantities of hundreds each from a company in USA many years back. At the time I think RF and Farnell wanted 50 pence plus per unit - I got the price down to around 11 to 13 pence per unit, which included post to me from USA and then post around the UK to individual buyers. It made my own purchase viable, because the American company would not sell in quantities less than 100, and I think I only wanted 50 personally (as did lots of others). The amount of effort to do this on my part wasn't vastly more than actually placing an order just for myself - just extra emails out to potential buyers then making up packages of the right quantities and posting them. I can't see why people make such a big deal of simple co-operative efforts like this - but I recall the committee of VMARS at the time wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. No idea why since with hundreds of potential buyers quantities could be huge. It actually worked without a hitch with about half a dozen buyers. Richard |
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18th May 2020, 9:53 am | #56 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Quote:
Wonder where the other 46,998 went.... but seeing some in use makes it worthwhile. They cost me nothing and they were delivered to places I was going to anyway. It's just disappointing they didn't spread more. They're something a lot of people could have used. There are a few out there that I sent out recently doing sterling work in some loop antenna preamps. Imagine if it had been the same quantity of NOS premium grade boxed ECC83. That's what it feels like to an RF guy. DAvid
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18th May 2020, 10:01 am | #57 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Some of those transistors came my way. I passed them on to forum members building loop antennas.
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18th May 2020, 10:05 am | #58 | |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
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18th May 2020, 11:50 am | #59 |
Octode
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
WRT valves: I read from someone connected with Telefunken that one of the big problems in making low noise / low microphony valves is availability of certain alloys He was saying that, although the material could be made today, the demand is too low to warrant it. This was coming from a microphone specialist. As some of you may be aware, there are German mic valves that can fetch thousands in good condition. This was something he put decades of work into. It's a different situation to power valves and the like, but is probably part of the reason why TFK and Mullards are so desirable today (assuming they are real!).
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5th Jun 2020, 2:23 pm | #60 |
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Re: Remanufacturing unobtainable parts.
Copyright laws are complex, different in different countries, and the goalposts are continually changing due to new legal interpretations, as well as changes to the legislation itself. While I have not kept up to date with the finer points since retiring, it is my understanding that, in the UK, copyright only applies ( to use the language of the 1988 Copyright Act) to " original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works; sound recordings, films or broadcasts; and the typographical arrangements of published editions".
Objects not falling under these headings are not protected by copyright , but by other rights such as design right. Patents, and Trade Marks. Whereas copyright generally lasts for a term of years after the death if the author ( often 70 years, sometimes shorter), registered design right lasts for 25 years max from registration, and unregistered design right only 10 years from the creation of a design document describing it. Registered Trade Marks can go on for ever, as long as renewal fees are paid. The consequence is that, if a vintage mechanical item is more than 25 years old, any patent, registered or unregistered design rights will almost certainly have expired, and all you have to consider is any existing trademark rights. So having vintage repro parts made commercially does not involve copyright infringement for the UK. Thus anyone is legally entitled to make exact copies of the basic Lego brick, as long as their copies do not bear the Lego Trade Mark ( the courts gave short shrift to a far eastern company who sold theirs under the name "0637"!). However, you cannot make copies of any of the later bricks for which design right still exists. This would seem to explain Lego's practice of regularly bringing out new models that incorporate new brick shapes. I have no idea what the situation is in Australia, but do know that copyright covers a different range of things in the USA than it does in the UK. This is something to be kept in mind when getting info from the internet, and is a fact not always appreciated by even large US companies when they have attempted to enforce rights that do not exist in the UK. Last edited by emeritus; 5th Jun 2020 at 2:45 pm. |