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Old 14th Dec 2003, 10:48 pm   #1
high_vacuum_house
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Default Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operation?

Hello there,
I recently heard a rumor that the Droitwitch transmitter masts (the ones seen whilst driving up the M5 north of Worcester) are not in use anymore and that all maintanance work on the masts has been suspended.
Can anyone enlighten us to the real situation ?
Thanks,
Christopher Capener
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Old 14th Dec 2003, 11:04 pm   #2
Paul Stenning
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

And if they aren't in operation, where is Radio 4 LW transmitted from?
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 9:51 am   #3
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

The BBC website gives no mention of this, but I also seem to recollect that maintenance work is to be suspended, possibly because the masts have reached the end of their design life. LW seems to be part of the strategy of the BBC so some alternative site may be found. It's also the UK frequency sub standard.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/radio...ong_wave.shtml
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 9:55 am   #4
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

I've also heard that the Droitwich 198kHz service is meant to be the " last resort " emergency transmitter to be kept on the air if some masssive disaster overwhelms the UK. Has the advantage of being audible (just about) over the entire country.
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 10:43 am   #5
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

IIRC the BBC has a bunker at Evesham, complete with a buried hydraulicaly erected transmitter mast. I don't think the Droitwich TX would survive an all out nuclear strike (neither would most of the listeners of course).

Best regards, Paul
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 7:29 pm   #6
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

There is rather more information on the website for Crown Castle International who operate all the BBC's transmitters, but I can't find anything about Droitwich being, or going, out of action.

The bunker at Evesham is in the grounds of Wood Norton, one of the BBC's training schools, although not as a part of any training course as far as I know! As for a buried hydraulic mast, I have absolutely no idea.

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Old 15th Dec 2003, 9:46 pm   #7
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

As far as I am aware, the Droitwich transmitter is still in use. Not only does it pump out Radio 4, it also contains information which is transmitted with the audio signal to operate regional electricity boards 'Economy 7 ' teleswitches! If you have Economy 7 heating in your house, controlled by a radio teleswitch rather than a mechanical timeswitch, then it's commands come Via Radio 4, 198 KHz!!

Cheers, Simon.
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Old 15th Dec 2003, 11:25 pm   #8
Paul Stenning
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

I understood these timers were operated by the Rugby atomic radio clock on 60kHz....
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Old 16th Dec 2003, 12:30 am   #9
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Paul

The Radio Teleswitching signal is definately carried by the Droitwich 198kHz transmitter and also by another lw transmitter in Scotland, the location of which escapes me. The RTS software currently runs on a microVax at National Grid, which sends the codes via comms links to the BBC. The software system also monitors the transmitters via lw monitor receivers to ensure the codes are output correctly.

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Old 16th Dec 2003, 1:14 am   #10
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Yes 198kHz does more than just Radio 4, have a look at BBC RD Link here...http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1984_19.html

Some years ago E&WW (Mag) did a receiver/decoder for these transmissions to give time and date..

If they stopped 198kHz what would happen to economy seven!!

Malcolm
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Old 16th Dec 2003, 1:26 am   #11
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Quote:
Paul

The RTS software currently runs on a microVax at National Grid, which sends the codes via comms links to the BBC.
Ron
I had a discussion (sort of!) with our leccy company when our 'off peak' (pre-econ 7) radio switch failed to activate. They claimed they had no way of telling the switch to turn on or off and didn't realise it was even radio even though it says so on it. Anyway even though I suspected they'd fudged the data the switch was indeed broke. These things have a backup timer in case they miss a transmission so you can't wrap one in a faraday cage once it is activated... pity.

In fact the system has some intelligence in the design. AFAIK the boxes are zoned so that load demand for off-peak (e.g. heaters etc) can be staggered somewhat if necessary, so that the whole of the UK storage heaters do not bang on full load all at the same time.

Ok, hardly vintage radio related! And no valves in them so not my scene!

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Old 16th Dec 2003, 11:37 am   #12
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Does this mean if I connect a loudspeaker to my electric meter, I can listen to Test Match Special in the cupboard under the stairs?
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Old 16th Dec 2003, 1:50 pm   #13
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Silly mid off?
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Old 16th Dec 2003, 6:41 pm   #14
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Malcolm, do you have a copy of that project published in E&WW ?
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Old 16th Dec 2003, 7:13 pm   #15
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Yes I still have the article 7 pages in total, will post you a copy if you wish.
It was in the june 1999 issue, its by Peter Topping, " LW off-air reference clock " .

Malcolm
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Old 16th Dec 2003, 10:52 pm   #16
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Thanks Malcolm. If you let me have your address off forum, I will send you some stamps to cover your costs.

Cheers, Simon.

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Old 20th Dec 2003, 10:28 pm   #17
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

I would say that the main masts are still working - I live a few miniutes away from them - it is still lit up each night and I can still get radio 4 LW perfectly in my TELEPHONE!

The two tall ones are marked " A " and " B " and are for R4, and the two shorter ones are " C " and " D " and are raidiating masts, broadcasting R5, Virgin and Talksport I am led to believe.

There are also two huge mobile phone masts on the site aswell, one of them is an Orange, not sure about the other.

Masts A and B are really amazing to stand beneath - during the summer I took many photographs of them from the farm next to them, you don't really appreciate the scale of them until they right in front of you.

They were originally completed in 1934 and was regarded by many at the time as the most techically advanced transmitting site in the whole world.

John Reath, always an engineer at heart, chose to visit the " Droitwich " site (which is in Wychbold!), on his last day as DG of the BBC. He signed out of the visitors book there and that was the last thing he signed as DG. He saw the transmitter as a triumph of the BBC's engineering work.
 
Old 21st Dec 2003, 12:15 pm   #18
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

To follow up from DougMills's post, I have it in good authority the transmitters are in full working order and happily pumping out 500KW the last time they looked - as Doug's telephone will testify!

This seems an odd rumour but it'd be extraordinarily unlikely that the BBC/CC would be turning off the only transmitter capable of:

(i) national coverage in an emergency,
(ii) being a frequency sub-standard and
(iii) what would all those Economy 7 switches do?

In the days when the BBC was absolutely religious about technical standards, the " old " 200KHz transmitter was used as a frequency standard to compare colour subcarrier frequency with that produced by " ordinary " sync pulse generators (as opposed to the rubidium vapour beast at TC) such as that fitted down at the Television Theatre (now reverted to the Shepherd's Bush Empire). If the SPG's subcarrier frequency deviated by more than the official PAL standard of +/-1Hz (although I think remote PGs were allowed very slightly more) it set off an alarm in the Check Receiver unit, which was ISTR a super-regen receiver which extracted the 200KHz carrier from a very high active aerial on the roof. From memory if you saw the number " 709379 " in the display you knew you were okay. Pity I didn't rescue the aerial when TVT closed...

Sadly, when I did my training courses at Evesham I was one of the unlucky ones - i.e. those who DIDN'T get the day trip to Droitwich


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Old 29th Dec 2003, 7:04 pm   #19
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Quote:
Sadly, when I did my training courses at Evesham I was one of the unlucky ones - i.e. those who DIDN'T get the day trip to Droitwich
It would be interesting to know how many other forum members attended Wood Norton (Evesham). I was one.

Gordon.

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Old 4th Jan 2004, 6:53 pm   #20
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Default Re: Are the Droitwitch transmitter masts in operat

Hello
I am glad that the rumour of Droitwich closing has been scotched. Even if analogue AM broadcasts are to end this transmitter would be used for the digital replacement whatever that may be. The other reason why Droitwitch is so important is the shipping forcasts, even today with modern coms etc the shipping forcasts are still widly used by all sea faring folk. The coverage from this Long wave transmitter with its 500Kw power extends from the Scandinavian coast right down to the Northern Spanish coast and from the Danish coast right up to SE Iceland. Not bad for half a megawatt. Just think what the covarage is from certain European Long wave transmitters that use up to 2 Megawatts. I certainly would not like to live to close to one of these even with a valved front end radio .
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