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Old 21st Aug 2021, 4:09 pm   #61
bobhowe
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

UPDATE from Teeside Live today they have completed the instailation of an additional 15m mast at Arncliffe Wood approximately another 200.00 households have coverage for TV PSB1 ,2 and 3 multiplexes and the main BBC , ITV CH4,CH5 services kind regards Bob
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 5:50 pm   #62
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Now, that model of the Tour Eiffel (did you scratch it to see if it's cast from gold?) David
Just to wind up talk of the Eiffel Tower. I bought it in Paris in the 90's mainly because it looked so much like a transmitting tower.

If you turn it upside down and look 'up the tower' you can see the word ITALY stamped into the casting right at the very top. I'm probably the only person to discover this!

it's a great shame when transmitting towers collapse but hats off to those in charge of restoring the service. I doubt think anyone was injured.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 5:55 pm   #63
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

And to show what happens when a mast fire causes it to collapse here is the first section on the TX gallery page for Peterborough's fire and subsequent collapse,

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallery...36&pageid=1563

The mast is literally lying across the transmitter hall, and that's a mast half the height of Bilsdale! (and probably a fair bit more than 50% lighter due to the lattice nature and lack of internal lift or dampening chains).

Last edited by dglcomp; 21st Aug 2021 at 6:04 pm.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 6:07 pm   #64
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

I second that John very quick to get some service resumed a credit to the engineers kind regards Bob
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 6:27 pm   #65
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I second that John very quick to get some service resumed a credit to the engineers kind regards Bob
Thirded, two new masts, services added to existing installations and a load of RBL changes within a week basically, very good going.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 6:34 pm   #66
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

The reconfiguration is going very well but they can’t please everyone. I didn’t know if to smile or just shake my head with some of the comments in various online areas. Some expecting there would be a contingency plan to erect a new 300m mast there and then. No consideration for the safety of personnel etc.

Has I said, cant please everyone.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 6:53 pm   #67
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Arqiva do have disaster recovery procedures in place for emergencies like this. The challenge isn't restoring a minimal service to a restricted area, it's restoring the full regional coverage.

I suspect they would have much preferred the mast to actually fall down so that they could clear up the aftermath. As it turned out, they've got an unusably damaged and dangerous mast in the middle of an environmentally sensitive area.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 7:05 pm   #68
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Appreciate Arqiva will have a plan in place and it’s working well, some don’t quite understand that not everything can be instant.
For those who have no other entertainment it’s hard, for the rest, probably the majority, there are many other hobbies other than TV or radio, or should I get my tin hat after that statement.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 7:28 pm   #69
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

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Originally Posted by dglcomp View Post
And to show what happens when a mast fire causes it to collapse here is the first section on the TX gallery page for Peterborough's fire and subsequent collapse,

http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallery...36&pageid=1563

The mast is literally lying across the transmitter hall, and that's a mast half the height of Bilsdale! (and probably a fair bit more than 50% lighter due to the lattice nature and lack of internal lift or dampening chains).
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Arqiva do have disaster recovery procedures in place for emergencies like this. The challenge isn't restoring a minimal service to a restricted area, it's restoring the full regional coverage.

I suspect they would have much preferred the mast to actually fall down so that they could clear up the aftermath. As it turned out, they've got an unusably damaged and dangerous mast in the middle of an environmentally sensitive area.
I don’t think we know that yet do we?
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 7:56 pm   #70
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Well, it's speculation, but if there was minimal damage then they'd already have contractors on site, just putting up a temporary mast. There is clearly some concern that the mast is unstable and may collapse. It's a big mast.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 8:04 pm   #71
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

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Well, it's speculation, but if there was minimal damage then they'd already have contractors on site, just putting up a temporary mast. There is clearly some concern that the mast is unstable and may collapse. It's a big mast.
Yes and a big mast of a known flawed design where you really need to go inside it to find all damage, I for one would not want to be anywhere near it.

Hate to think what would happen at work if a similar ever happened, all bar a few TV's in the caravans use either Stockland Hill or Weymouth (via Stockland) for their feed (some owners have their own SAT dishes and two areas have satellite feeds to the vans) and Wi-Fi is only available around the main complex.
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Old 21st Aug 2021, 11:29 pm   #72
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

I would guess that they have measured the tension in the guys to work out how much it has sagged. That would give a clue as to how safe it is to go inside.
They have now got to wait and see if it sags further after windy weather.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 5:23 am   #73
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Asking an employee or contractor to go into a potentially dangerous situation means taking on an awful lot of liability. Risk factors have to be identified and evaluated. Laws covering these things require 'All reasonable precautions' to have been taken and no-one knows just what that means until the court case after an injury/fatality has concluded. So it's of no help before the event.

I'm in no doubt that Arqiva would rather the thing had come down while no-one was on-site.
This could still be achieved deliberately, but that would get SSSI people rather upset.

If the existing mast isn't positively determined to be fully trustworthy, then any new mast, whether temporary or permanent, will need to be far enough away to not be under threat from the existing one. Similarly, transmitter buildings would be needed outside of the danger zone. This will really upset the SSSI people by doubling the intrusion on the protected habitat. An engineering solution might be to lock both the SSSI people and the Health-and-safety people in a room and see who emerges alive.

Is the temporary lattice mast at Emley still up for sale, or has it been quietly withdrawn? It was still there when I was in the area a couple of weeks ago.

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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 7:43 am   #74
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

It's a conundrum of the sort that International Rescue would retrieve in a jiffy.

The mast has been compromised by fire, so unless proven otherwise must be considered scrap. It follows that sooner or later it must come down - Bilsdale isn't Pisa. That said, the choice is broadly between bringing it down, taking the hit to environment and facilities up front, clearing the site and rebuilding; or building an entire new facilty out of harm's way, churning up more of the SSSI, and then having to demolish, clear and reinstate the original site,

SSSI collateral damage limitation indicates the former. I suspect Arqiva's requirements indicate the latter. Game on.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 9:28 am   #75
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

I do not know the area but it seems that pretty much full coverage has been acheived by other means. Do they actually need to replace it?

Peter
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 9:35 am   #76
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

No, that's far from the case. What they've done up to now is beef up the bigger Bilsdale relays and arrange alternative feeds. That has restored coverage for the Hartlepool / Middlesborough coastal strip, but most of inland North Yorkshire still has no coverage. They may get away with building a much shorter mast, but some sort of replacement will be needed.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 10:20 am   #77
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Let me play devils advocate for a moment. As far as I am aware all we know for sure, mainly through distant photographs and short press releases, is that there was a fire in a building near the base of the mast and the mast itself does not sit on top of any building. No doubt there was a considerable amount of fire and smoke engulfing that building. We are not aware of any flames on the mast itself are we ?- ‘yes’ a lot of smoke but not fire? Is it not conceivable that smoke was ducted up through the tubular mast - being emitted at various points along its length where you might have access points to external aerials and dishes and that whilst the mast might have suffered smoke damage it’s structural integrity might be ok after the equivalent of a good jet wash and repaint? As I say, just playing devils advocate.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:00 am   #78
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

The photos in post#14 show the paint all peeled off by the heat.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:01 am   #79
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

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the mast itself does not sit on top of any building.
Sort of, the mast sits on a massive concrete plinth/building unlike lattice masts that do still sit on a concrete base it's no where near as high and the mast itself actually sits on a ball to allow movement.

See the penultimate picture on this page, http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallery...=620&pageid=76

Of course if the fire was in an adjacent building then I would doubt that smoke would be emanating from the mast, unless it was being channeled through the feeders.
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 11:10 am   #80
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

I wonder if it would be practical to drone-survey not only the outside of the mast but the inside as well - not knowing what these things look like on the inside I don't know whether there is a continuous through-way going all the way up like there usually is in a lighthouse. Instinct tells me there are likely to be frequent platforms with trapdoors so that anyone who falls can't fall the full internal height of the mast.

Seems like a perfect job for a robot capable of climbing stairs / ladders, if any such exist.
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