RWB and OTHER outlets for our new and used items, can they carry on?

[Wellertcp]

Regarding the above comment; there does seem to be a tendency nowadays, that when a person has something to sell, they automatically assume that it's worth a fortune, especially if it's old.

Likewise, when a person wants to buy, perhaps the same object, they expect to buy it for next to nothing.

For the record, my comments are not aimed at anyone on this forum (I've not bought or sold anything via this forum) but are comments based on my life experience.

[ThePillenwerfer]

I've long thought how for all that Members of this forum are incredibly generous in terms of giving assistance and giving things away the same can't be said when it comes to parting with actual pounds, shillings and pence.

The future of events and the BVWS itself is or course unknown. Things have changed since 1976. Back then such a society was about the only way people with a common interest could communicate with each other and trade physical items. The internet has adding multiple alternatives for doing both. "Shopping as required" wasn't really an option in the past whereas now you can get more or less what you want any time you are willing to put your hand in your pocket.

[Wellertcp]

A couple more points; I don't think it has been raised - how is the BVWS membership?

Say, over the last 1/2/5/10 years or so, is it rising, falling, stable; rising or falling rapidly, ups and downs ?
A graph would be interesting.

Another point, I raised in my initial post in this thread, that there are a number of mags that I hadn't received, and getting a response from anyone/the right person wasn't easy, and I gave up.
Rather disappointed that this hasn't been picked-up by anyone.
And yes, I hear you cry; but all of the committee are volunteers, etc.

Well, I've paid my money in good faith for a service that I haven't received. Does that sound fair?
Well, don't worry, I've been considering my membership for the last few years, and won't be renewing again.

[Catkins]

Originally Posted by ThePillenwerfer

The future of events and the BVWS itself is or course unknown. Things have changed since 1976. Back then such a society was about the only way people with a common interest could communicate with each other and trade physical items. The internet has adding multiple alternatives for doing both. "Shopping as required" wasn't really an option in the past whereas now you can get more or less what you want any time you are willing to put your hand in your pocket.

I *very* rarely buy things over the internet, because so much has been "miss described" or arrived badly damaged by the courier. So I much prefer to go somewhere to inspect the goods personally and ensure it is safely transferred home afterwards.

As many will know buying over the internet can be more expensive than at Retrotech or at a BVWS auction (I've only ever gone to Wotton Bassett auctions). So I would be very sad if Retrotech or the BVWS auctions finished. This is in addition to the already mentioned social functions that face-to-face meetings provide.

The more things move online to the internet, the more the outside world becomes uninteresting with fewer and fewer opportunities to go somewhere and meet people or experience unexpected things through serendipity.

Perhaps the people who didn't go to the auction are by and large the same people who don't read this forum (and hence this thread), and so the wrong people are being asked here?

But the obvious fact is people to attend the auctions have to be BVWS members. So would it be possible to send an email out to all BVWS members asking this question, or put a question into the next bulletin?

[sortedradio]

I tend to buy parts for stock as and when I can afford to, as and when they become available. There are many semiconductors, valves, ICs where I prefer to buy NOS items, and yes I am a hoarder!

[Junk Box Nick]

My RadCom (RSGB) mag arrived today. On page 19 there is a panel called National Clubs & Associations. There is a diverse listing of clubs listed there including British Amateur Television Club, teledata, Old Timers, CW groups, etc. BVWS wouldn't stand out as odd amongst them and they are soliciting listings.

Also in the issue there is part 1 of a two part article on AM operation (and its revival) with mention of much vintage gear including pictures of R1155/T1154 set-up and KW Viceroy, etc.

[slidertogrid]

It doesn't look as if anything will change as suggestions are either dismissed or ignored, Who cares if people think this is a BVWS forum? Does it matter? Are we not all rowing the same boat so to speak?
I will say no more... I don't see any point.

[ms660]

If you want to stay in business then do what the market wants, adapt to survive if you want it to stay alive.

Lawrence.

[stevehertz]

My take on this is simple. There are most probably people out there who would be interested in joining the BVWS if only they knew of its existence. Logically that means that we need to make them aware of us. How do we do that? By using whatever routes are freely available such as links from other radio and also associated and general vintage web sites, and yes that (PR) requires negotiation and effort. Additionally if there is any budget, to place advertisements in similar journals and web sites. Expecting people to find us when they don't even know of our existence is not a winning strategy, but is the easiest one. We need to put the message out there of our existence. Let's be sensible, we're not looking to swell the ranks of members by thousands (that would create problems), a few hundred would help greatly to pep up swapmeets in particular. Could anyone deny that in this country of many millions of people there's not a few hundred who would want to join the BVWS? We need to reach out to them by being positive and proactive, not knocking ideas on the head or simply ignoring them.

[David G4EBT]

Originally Posted by slidertogrid

It doesn't look as if anything will change as suggestions are either dismissed or ignored.

That assumes that something does need to change.

Many posts in this thread have wandered off-topic and all over the place.

It's only been allowed to stay open as those members of the forum who are also members of the BVWS committee were anxious to receive positive suggestions as to how things could be improved. It may be that they will wish to discuss any suggestions among themselves as a committee, but this is not the place in which to expect them respond with 'lip-jerk' reactions.

Many responses in the thread are from non-members who are unlikely to join.

As a member for more than thirty years, I'd like to comment on some of the issues raised, much of which infers that the BVWS could do more to promote the hobby. Quite how much more, I've no idea, given how much it has done and continues to do, which in my view is quite outstanding, and about which critics seem quite unaware.

I'm puzzled as to why some seem unable to navigate the BVWS website, which has drop down menus.

It's clear that many haven't bothered to look at the website to ascertain its aims and objectives, which are:

2. Objectives

The Society exists to promote:

(i) the study of the history of electrical and electronic communication and entertainment
(ii) the rescue and preservation of early equipment, documents, and ephemera
(iii) high standards of conservation and restoration
(iv) opportunities for members to exchange equipment, ideas, and information
(v) fair transactions between members
(vi) the retention of important British artefacts in Britain

From the outset, the initial focus was on radio, and I see no reason to change the society's name.

The BVWS has made available to non-members the archived Bulletins from to view or download from issue 1 June 1976 to Winter 2017 (Volume 42). Every article has been written by BVWS members (and sometimes non-members). A glance through the issues over the years will show that until the end of 1993, the bulletin was in black and white. From Dec '93 it has coloured front and back covers, from winter 2007 it has been full colour. The actual content of each bulletin is dependent on what articles are submitted to the Editor for consideration.

The quality of the Bulletin is remarkable in my view, has never been higher in every respect - way higher than other radio magazine printed on what appears to be newsprint and with little technical content.

Over the years, the bulletins have covered a very wide range of vintage electronics and communications, military, civil and domestic from the earliest days

To take the Summer 2023 Bulletin, one article is the second part of the daunting restoration of a Selmer Clavioline Keyboard covering thirteen pages. in all, with 98 colour photographs and circuitry. Another is an eight page article on the restoration of B&W portable Baird TV from the mid 1950s. I'm nether interested in TVs or keyboards, but found the articles enthralling and I'm full of admiration of the restorers, both for their highly skilled restorations and very well-written and well illustrated articles.

'405 Alive' magazine from issue 1, March 1989 to issue 45, Spring 2001 are also archived on the BVWS website for anyone to access and download as PDFs.

From Winter 2004 to Winter 2016, having obtained copyrights the Society provided 12 DVS free to members, containing in all, 59 restored historic films, such as radio and valve factories showing work in progress.

On the rescue and preservation of early equipment and retention of important vintage artefacts:

For many years, BVWS members and 'Friends of the Museum' assisted Gerry Wells at his Dulwich Wireless Museum. Following the death of Gerry in 2014, it was unclear if the Museum could survive, but efforts by a dedicated group of volunteers found a way to ensure the long-term survival of the major part of the collection. A charitable Trust was formed with a board of trustees including BVWS members

Originally contained in the lower part of the house plus some buildings at the rear, the museum has now moved out completely from the main property. Building work has expanded the museum buildings at the rear to a high standard and added toilet facilities and other amenities. It is the only viable and working wireless museum in the UK open to the public. Many radio and television programmes have been produced in and about the museum which have encouraged the preservation and understanding of this national heritage and gained worldwide recognition.

Any surplus made from NVCF/Retrotech has been used to support the museum, and Friend of the Museum (Mostly BVWS members), raise money of B&B stalls at Vintage Radio events. (The AGM reported that Retrotech made a small profit of £700 last year, and the cost if hiring the Warwick venue was £10,000, hence the move this year to another venue).

It's been said that the BVWS could spread the word about other radio related forums and sites. A quick glance at the website will show that it does:

Quote:

Links:

Links are provided for information only. The BVWS does not endorse any of the websites or businesses nor does it give any guarantee as to the accuracy of any information or the quality of any goods or services offered. Any transactions are solely the responsibility of the parties concerned.

Discussion Forums
• UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forums
• Golborne Vintage Radio Forums
• Vintage Radio And Television (VRAT) Forum

BVWS Members' radio related Websites: Fifteen.
Commercial Vintage Radio and TV Products and Services: Ten.
Vintage Wireless Websites in the UK: Nine.
Museums in the UK: Four.
International Vintage Websites: Six.
International Vintage Wireless Museums: One.

It states:

If you would like your website adding or know of a good addition to the list please send details to the communication officer. We will only consider links that are directly relevant to vintage radio and television collectors. This list was last updated on 3rd July 2023, adding a new section for international vintage wireless museums, starting with Olens Radiomuseum in Belgium.

If you find any non-working links please email our Communications Officer so we can update or remove them.

Unquote.

Some have asked how many members does the society have?

Again, why not look at the website which says around 1,200 including some outside the UK.
(The AGM reported that the membership had remained stable at around 1,200 over recent years, and that as the Society's finances were in good shape, the subs would not need be increased).

(To put that into perspective, this forum has 1,720 Active Members, many of who are BVWS members).

BVWS is run by a committee of 12 people plus helpers. In their place I would feel very dispirited, reading some of the comments in this thread, notably from those who have made no effort to look at what this Society does or to give any credit or recognition of the efforts made by those who have been in it for the long haul.

I hope that sets things into proper perspective, and that this post makes in onto the thread before the final curtain come down on this 'whinge-fest'.

With thanks to Paul and the moderators' for their forbearance.

[Paul Stenning]

Originally Posted by Junk Box Nick

My RadCom (RSGB) mag arrived today. On page 19 there is a panel called National Clubs & Associations. There is a diverse listing of clubs listed there including British Amateur Television Club, teledata, Old Timers, CW groups, etc. BVWS wouldn't stand out as odd amongst them and they are soliciting listings.

I agree, exactly the sort of list the BVWS should be in.

It would also be good to see some/more activity from these groups on this forum.

[David Simpson]

Please Paul & Moderators, think seriously about closing this thread. DavidG4EBT has gone to great lengths to put everyone in the picture, BVWS-wise. This has become a bit of a boxing match - the BVWS in one corner, & the VRR&R in another(edged-on by snipy snidey remarks made by a small handful of folk who are not BVWS members, and probably don't do anything in their own neck of the woods to promote VR activities). The response from the BVWS hierarchy has been jolly dignified to say the least!
The summer of discontent eh ? Who is next on the list for being got-at ? VMARS perhaps ?
VRR&R has been, for many years, great at giving & seeking advice & promoting the VR fraternity. Lambasting the Repair Shop & other TV productions is fair game. But targeting individuals & stalwarts in the VR fraternity, who do a tremendous job - - Nah, Nah, jolly mean ! Please stop.

Regards, David

[ThePillenwerfer]

Crisising the current BVWS web-site is pretty pointless as we have been told it's up for complete replacement. I have no complaints about it's allegedly "Old Fashioned" style but do think the lack of interesting/useful content doesn't make the society attractive — it's a shop window that doesn't make you want to go in and look 'round. I have looked at every page on it in recent days.

The BVWTVM's site is much better in that regard. As well as content the whole tone of it is more attractive. After looking at both I'd be much more inclined to join its Friends rather than the BVWS. It's still too distant for me to engage in its activities but at least I'd think my subs were going towards something worthwhile.

This is a genuine question and not having a pop: What has the BVWS done in pursuit of items ii a vi of its constitution? In the ten years or so that I've been on this forum and others I've never heard of anything being rescued by them, which isn't to say they haven't of course.

It seems to be that Gerry Wells, Chas Miller and Paul Stenning have done far more for vintage radio and vintage radio enthusiasts as individuals than the BVWS has. Some of their activities were commercial but a heck of a lot was for the Greater Good. Gerry and Chas are no longer with us but have left huge legacies, Gerry the museum and Chas a canon of helpful books. If the BVWS folded tomorrow what would that leave, apart from issues of the Bulletin?

[Radio Wrangler]

The BVWS doesn't exist to save/preserve radios itself. Its members do that.

So the question becomes whether the BVWS helps its members do so. I think it does. It has spread excellent information through a magazine of well-produced and encouraging articles along with aiding the circulation of sets and parts from those who don't want them to those who could use them.

As organisations go, their heart seems to be in the right place, and as an organisation running entirely on voluntary horsepower they seem reasonably effective. As a non-member I joke that they really ought to organise just one token event in Northern Ireland, Wales or Scotland to justify that 'B' as their first initial and if they did even once venture into strange and exotic realms, I'd be morally obliged to join.

The auctions are out of economic travel range for me (>800 miles roundtrip) and the attraction would be to inspect the items first. I have enough info so the bulletin might be a nice read, but it's not essential.

I'm more worried about the rock-slinging that has gone on in this thread, there have even been suggestions of criminality and fraud. I'm surprised that it's lasted this long. Paul has said it will be closed today so as everything seems to have been said already (at least once) now is the time.

One thing the tone of this thread has done is convince me to support them and join.

David