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Old 17th Apr 2021, 1:20 pm   #1
Radio Scotland
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Default Radio transistor count

Seem's that back in the day when radio was king that the general public thought the more transistors a radio had the better it performed. I've ever heard stories of some manufactures installing extra transistors by twisting the leads together and soldering them into an unused hole on the PCB Just to get the transistor count up

And apparently some went as far as gluing extra ones to the inside of the case

Anyone heard similar stories ?


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Old 17th Apr 2021, 1:23 pm   #2
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

Not heard any of those stories, but in some cases a transistor junction was used as a detector diode.
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 1:37 pm   #3
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

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Not heard any of those stories, but in some cases a transistor junction was used as a detector diode.
Yeah I've also heard of that being done.
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 2:01 pm   #4
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

But they (the diode connected transistors) were probably not very good as transistors, at least you could use the good junction. The classic count was six, mixer/osc., two IF, AF driver and two for the push pull output. The "All Transistor Six" I guess.
 
Old 17th Apr 2021, 2:47 pm   #5
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

The only instance I can think of where a UK manufacturer inflated the count with diode-connected transistors is the LW/MW/SW Fidelity Fairline, "12 transistors" but a couple of them are used two-legged. Much more of that sort of thing among Far Eastern sets sold in the USA, I've seen fifteen-transistor MW-only pocket sets which employed a few shenanigans to make that claim.

I would be surprised if there are diode-connected devices in the Panasonic RF-9000 (41 ICs, 21 FETs and 174 more transistors), but I've not examined it closely enough to be sure.

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Old 17th Apr 2021, 3:25 pm   #6
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

There were a few KB radios, like the KB Rhapsody Super 8 was one. https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolsterbr_vp21.html
Click image for larger version

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and the Cadet UP11 https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/kolsterbr_up11.html
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 3:47 pm   #7
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

I suppose it was a hang-over from the valve days, back when each bottle was several week's worth of wages, each valve was really quite something. Later on the valve count marked out those sets which weren't just yet another short superhet and could be expected to be more sensitive and more selective.In the transistor age, the marketeers at the manufacturers would have reckoned that there was still lingering punter-cred in the number of active devices.

It faded as other characteristics took over the determination of position in the bragging rights stakes.

Nowadays, who knows how many active devices there are in current radios?

The thing by my right elbow sports two entire 32-bit DSP engines, never mind the control CPU, lan interface etc. Even the Japanese firms have stopped counting.

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Old 17th Apr 2021, 9:24 pm   #8
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Scotland View Post
I've ever heard stories of some manufactures installing extra transistors by twisting the leads together and soldering them into an unused hole on the PCB Just to get the transistor count up

And apparently some went as far as gluing extra ones to the inside of the case

Anyone heard similar stories ?

I think these probably are just unfounded stories. Transistors became relatively cheap to manufacture once they were embedded in consumer electronics. (Not disputing the sometime role as diode-connected detector, though)

On the other hand, you get a few more in high quality output stages. For example the Hacker audio amp stages (beautifully built on a discrete circuit board) but that wasn't done for marketing reasons -- the resulting sound quality was/is self-evident.
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Old 17th Apr 2021, 11:31 pm   #9
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

In the 1990's it was considered good practice for designers of integrated circuits to include some circuitry or devices that did nothing, to make the detection of copyng easier. It was OK to design your own circuitry to emulate the "black box" performance of a competitor's chip, but not OK to copy the circuit toplogy. A competitor's chip that included identical circuitry that did nothing could provide strong evidence of direct copying.

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 4:19 am   #10
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

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I think these probably are just unfounded stories...
They may all be on the circuit board, but I'd be surprised if much more than half the nominally active devices in here are active at all...

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknow...kp16_kp_1.html

I've long held at bay a slight temptation to acquire one of these and see just what the designer was up to.

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 6:53 am   #11
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

In the photo on the Radiomuseum site, Paul, there appear to be four transistors in a square formation between the audio driver transformer and the audio output transformer instead of the usual two. I wonder if he was making up for poor device gain by using a Darlington pair in each position where we'd usually find one? That would up the transistor count without increasing the number of passives needed to support them. There looks to be more transistors than passives!

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 8:53 am   #12
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Scotland View Post
Seem's that back in the day when radio was king that the general public thought the more transistors a radio had the better it performed. I've ever heard stories of some manufactures installing extra transistors by twisting the leads together and soldering them into an unused hole on the PCB Just to get the transistor count up
I've heard similar stories but only from web based recollections....I wonder how true they are. Mind you it wouldn't surprise me with some less scrupulous manufacturers. Transistors became relatively cheap in the 60's and some of the rejects my have been utilised in this way to recoup some of the losses....and Jo public would be non the wiser since very few of the pocket sets were ever repaired. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I seem to recall looking at one of the small pocket sets in the 70's and finding a transistor with all leads shorted and just soldered to a blob of print but then it had been got-at so I wasn't sure.....
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 9:34 am   #13
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

The inactive extra devices in sets such as the one in Paul’s link don’t need to be good devices.

So the 1970’s semiconductor manufacturer had a market for good devices and a market for duds. Wonder who he sold the marginally out of spec devices to.......

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 1:37 pm   #14
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

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Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
I wonder if he was making up for poor device gain by using a Darlington pair in each position where we'd usually find one?...There looks to be more transistors than passives!

David
Yes, that could be the case if economics really justified making some use of a supply of impaired devices. Still, I'm guessing that at best quite a few of those transistors are doing nothing at all. I've just been counting the components of the 16 transistor Fiesta and comparing what's on view with a six transistor set of similar appearance here, a Riviera RV62 from the Republic Transistor Corp. of Hong Kong. Unlike the Fiesta it has a minuscule schematic pasted inside the back.

Coil/IFT cans: 4 in each radio.
Transformers, driver and output in each radio.
Resistors: 14 in the 6 transistor Riviera, 13 in the 16 transistor Fiesta.
Can electrolytic capacitors: 4 in each radio.
Disc capacitors, 7 in the Riviera, 6 in the Fiesta.
Diodes: 1 in the Riviera, none in the Fiesta.

Not absolutely sure I've spotted every component, but the signs are consistent with the possibility that we're looking at a six transistor radio with a further one diode-connected and nine more as complete passengers.

This one is interesting too, a MW-only pocket set boasting 14 transistors, four of which are in a gaggle by the output transformer:

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/unknow...?language_id=2

Paul

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 1:59 pm   #15
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

I had wondered if the audio output was paralleled pairs in push-pull to increase power dissipation of using low power transistors to stick with the same type throughout the radio. The current sharing problem would be horrendous, but then so was the issue with just a pair of germanium transistors betwixt transformers. Just because something's horrible doesn't guarantee that no-one's done it.

I'm curious, but it's not a set that floats my boat. If there's fakery for the point of a bigger headline number for marketing. it just feels crooked.

David
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 2:11 pm   #16
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

To me that Suntone receiver "reads" model 14 and it's got transistors in it.

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 2:19 pm   #17
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

It was quite common for HK built radios to have inflated transistor counts. 14 or 16 was unusual, but 8 was almost standard. Only 6 would be working as transistors, the others acting as diodes or not doing anything at all.
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Old 18th Apr 2021, 3:53 pm   #18
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

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To me that Suntone receiver "reads" model 14 and it's got transistors in it.

Lawrence.
I did wonder - a quick search for "16 transistor AM pocket radio" or something similar brought up a few examples of radios that obviously had only six or seven transistors, with 16 as part of the model number. In this instance, while I'm by no means sure I can see as many as 14 transistors there, the RM.org entry says there are, and the five of them clustered between driver and output transformers are enough to confirm we're not looking at an ordinary board for a set of this class.

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Old 18th Apr 2021, 5:58 pm   #19
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

When at school I worked out a ZN414 and an IC10 would make a 23 transistor radio.

ZN414 classic matchbox radio IC in a transistor can 10 transistors.
IC10 Sinclairs rebranding of a common amplifier chip 13 transistors.
 
Old 18th Apr 2021, 7:36 pm   #20
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Default Re: Radio transistor count

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I did wonder - a quick search for "16 transistor AM pocket radio" or something similar brought up a few examples of radios that obviously had only six or seven transistors, with 16 as part of the model number.
Interesting!

https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hacker..._rp72rp_7.html

Hacker Sovereign, by contrast (to develop my earlier point, post #8) has 17 transistors
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