Weller PU81 / WS81 - opinions?

[jamesinnewcastl]

Hi

I've had a PU-2D Weller iron for about 20 years. Never gone wrong. The amount of heat at the tip is adjusted by changing it for fatter/thinner ones.

Perhaps I'm used to a rubbish iron but it works great and any problems with joints are usually down to me!

Cheers
James

[ortek_service]

Yes, you can also change the temperature by choosing a tip with a different temperature range rating - stamped into the end of the Magnet.

I bought myself a 3m silicone lead foam-grip TCP iron new > 30years ago and I think it was the best one I'd ever bought personally. So I haven't bought any others new since then - Although I have since acquired quite a few other Weller temperature-readout irons + bases & lots of faulty Metcal bases (to fix one day) very cheap / chucked out)

I had started out with with a selection of mains-powered ones, like a DIY store one that had earth leakage, a Weller Red-handled & Blue Micro 12W one where the tips didn't last very long at all and also a Talco Heat-gun copy of the Weller.

I later acquired a dumped old Weller narrow black PU-1D transformer stand-base (but later one with 3-pin Bulgin socket rather than original screw-terminals type a friend's dad had) and started using 24V Antex ones I rebuilt from my College's faulty chuck-out ones.
But I got fed up with these overheating, melting plastic handle (and burning your fingers a bit), weak tips and awful stiff PVC cable that often got melted by tip when accidentally touched. I was then given a nice 24V Orange Oryx with screw on tips. But eventually the thread on the iron corroded away.

So I then bought my TCP (which seemed to be the workhorse of Electronics assembly factories and TV repair shops back then), and it's still working OK as my main iron (It would be on a lot originally, but I haven't done as much soldering at home in recent years).
And I've found the Iron-clad tips do last for years, despite using them for some bending & levering of component leads on tag strips and PCB, most-likely helped by its magnastat (which does click a bit, but not usually too annoying) temperature control. Although you can still buy new ones. Plus the 45W power does make them quite good for use on larger more vintage equipment. I also find it nice to use, with a very flexible silicone cable that doesn't weight it down, and foam-grip that makes it comfortable to use.
I still use it with the original PU-1D, as it takes up less space than the blue ones with separate slot-on stand

I even also used one at work for many years, inc. surface-mount, with pointed conical tips, as I often struggled to get enough heat out of the smaller Weller blue EC1301 25W etc. ones. (Although the later 80W WSD ones did have much better heat delivery a range of tips).
The ceramic temperature sensor tubes on the small EC1301 etc. were quite unreliable, and cost over half that of a new iron. But not sure if they improved it on the later black ESD conductive versions.

As virtually all of these older systems got chucked out, I now tend to mainly use the WX micro irons I bought-in with (expensive) heater-cartridge-tips for most work inc. very fine SM work, and existing Metcal's with a v.large (fixed-temperature) tip when more heat is needed.
However, for work-use I'd probably now favour JBC over Weller & Metcal, as have the largest range of tips for these + temperature-adjustment ability

[Craig Sawyers]

Well my wonderful new Metcal turned up. Made in China, other than the tips which were made in Puerto Rico.

There is included a Metcal sticker that says Made in USA, which rather cynically means that the sticker is made in the USA.

That aside, it is a pretty stunning instrument. The iron assembly is tiny and lightweight as compared with the chunkiness of a TCP. From cold to 350C takes 20 seconds (measured by me).

It has two timer modes. One mode is to reduce the temperature to 200C after 2 minutes in the cradle. Both those are programmable, temperature and duration. The second one is sleep mode, which turns off power to the iron completely. The default is 10 minutes, but again this is easily settable. Both those modes are supposedly for energy reasons, but it is clear that the main benefit is maintaining tip life.

I haven't used it in anger yet. That will come when my four layer board arrives!

Craig

[ortek_service]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

So I (with weeping wallet) have just sprung for a Metcal GT90-HP-T4 . These seem to be a thing of beauty. Punishingly accurate temperature control, and a real 90W from the tiny iron.

And they get around the leaving it on problem by having a motion sensor in the handle; you set a time to switch the iron off when the handle is stationary during set up. But since it is induction heated it (apparently) heats back up again in just a couple of seconds when you pick it back up.

With a couple of tips, the thick end of £450.
Craig

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Well my wonderful new Metcal turned up. Made in China, other than the tips which were made in Puerto Rico.
That aside, it is a pretty stunning instrument. The iron assembly is tiny and lightweight as compared with the chunkiness of a TCP. From cold to 350C takes 20 seconds (measured by me).

It has two timer modes. One mode is to reduce the temperature to 200C after 2 minutes in the cradle. Both those are programmable, temperature and duration. The second one is sleep mode, which turns off power to the iron completely. The default is 10 minutes, but again this is easily settable. Both those modes are supposedly for energy reasons, but it is clear that the main benefit is maintaining tip life.

I haven't used it in anger yet. That will come when my four layer board arrives!
Craig

Well it seems that these (only released last year?) OKI-Metcal GT-series aren't the original rather expensive Metcal design RF-connector MX-series 13.56MHz RF-Induction types, with max. temperature determined by tip-cartridge.
And I wondered if it was like: (which were apparently cheaper than 13.56MHz system)
- The older / less usual Metcal 3pin-DIN connector ones, like the old SP200-series 470kHz Low Frequency ones with flat-side on end of cartridges.
- The OKI? 450kHz Low-Frequency cartridges used by the current PS-series 3-pin Miniature circular connector / the MFR -series 8pin? DIN connector ones

But this (hard to find / Not on OKI-Metcal website?) GT-series info does say they are inductive-heated and Metcal's first adjustable temperature system: www.all-spec.com/Metcal-GT-Series with the FAQ: https://www.all-spec.com/UserFiles/I...020/GT-FAQ.pdf saying they are not controlled by (previous) Curie Point principle, but have an RTD temperature sensor. But still no mention of RF-heating frequency.

So it does seem to be a new system from Metcal, and operates a bit more like conventional irons that Weller (who also changed from magnetic reed switches to accelerometer motion sensors on WX-series etc.) & JBC still use.

Although the Metcal GT-series tips are separate from the heater-cartridge, and the GT-4 tips are mostly quite a bit cheaper than JBC / the Weller WX-series integrated Heater + tip cartridges (But heater cartridge quite a bit more, so hopefully do last a while)

[Craig Sawyers]

I'm not sure what the induction frequency is. But the connector is an 8-pin. The temperature is controllable in 1C increments. The cartridge is cylindrical, with a narrow pin that engages in the handle, and a blunt end that the tip locates on, held with a screwed-on thingy that holds everything together.

The control unit is powered by a Meanwell power brick. Meanwell have an excellent reputation.

Craig

[Radio Wrangler]

The Weller 'magnastat' TCP irons in addition to the tick sound also make a pulse of RFI that you can hear on radios and puts spikes on spectrum analysers.

The full-fat Metcals are RF powered with about 70W of 13.5MHz from the base unit to the hand piece. The cable is silicone 75 Ohm coax and for flexibility, the braid coverage is rather sparse, making them somewhat leaky. The cable lying across your bench makes the effect variable and more elusive.

I've seen quite a few people not aware of this, trying to hunt faults in prototypes they're working on, and were surprised when I switched off their iron and it disappeared.

Metcal base units are the expensive part. But they are not designed for being left on continuously and had no defences against that in earlier units. So the base units fail a lot when used by people who don't own them and don't use them with much sympathy. They are repairable by people with a bit of RF experience. I've acquired several bases that had failed and were being chucked out. Mechanically, they are a pain to work on, but do-able.

So I have two Metcals at home, and often use them, one in each hand. This is brilliant for lifting SMT components off. Things which need plenty of heat can get two irons on them at once. My Metcals are one on each side of a Russian Zenit stereo microscope. That scope isn't communist export tat, it's a model made for metallurgists in their technical institutions. The magnifications on the turret do just what I want, and there's plenty of working space under the very large diameter objective lens.

At home, I still have an old TCP1 for more agricultural work. Before I got a base, I had a large Gardners C-core banded 24v transformer in one of those tupperware buckets that caterers bough mayonnaise in. For even more agricultural work, I have a pair of 100w and 200W mains powered magnestat Wellers. The 200W one can do plumbing Yorkshire joints!

I have a couple of JBC handles and bits... I'm looking for a base to power them. When Jabil (a mulinational PCB assembly sub-contractor) closed down nearby, one of their people came to join us at work. Jabil was very much a JBC house and reckoned Metcals were a bit too fragile for heavy professional use. She is very much a JBC fan. The JBC does have a greater distance from where you hold it to the tip, so the Metcal has the edge for fine SMT work. Its duty cycle is fine for R&D or hobby work, provided the user knocks the power off between active use. The bits just slide in, the handles are just a fancy coaxial socket. Heat up time is just a few seconds. I have one Metcal power meter. It's an RF directional power meter and shows the heat input to the iron. A glance at the pointer to see the power drop back when it reaches temperature confirms you're up to temperature, and can show you if you've got so much thermal load on that it can't make temperature.

Humour section:

At HP, the quality department got worried about soldering quality and worried that the temperature of our irons might be wrong. So every year, everyone's Weller TCP got 'calibrated' A guy with gear on a trolley was employed almost full time in trundling round the place measuring them all. He'd write out a calibration sticker with a date a year hence, and stick one on the base and one on the handle - right where you hold it. So everyone would pull the sticker off the handle as soon as he'd gone. Trying to explain that the temperature was set not by the base or handle but by the tip got nowhere. If we'd succeeded, I suspect he'd have been instructed to put another label on the tip.

Whatever happened to intelligence?

David

[peter_scott]

I also remember at HP quite frequently using Wellers as a useful initial test of susceptibility to spikes on the mains. A very useful multi-function tool.

Peter

[knobtwiddler]

Have used a WSP80 / WSD81 for around 20 years now and have several at work. I use it partly as a 'devil you know' item, where spares are easily found at RS, Rapid etc (I like Hakko - but their UK distribution recently changed, and whereas the previous firm was cordial, the new one is a bureaucratic). I've compared it to the cheaper Metcal (500) and didn't think there was much in it performance-wise. There is a newish Pace 200, which has 120W and is also good value. If I jump ship, it'll probably be to the Pace. It's worth checking EEVBlog on YT for reviews on irons.

My feeling is that the Weller isn't the greatest iron, and tips took a massive nosedive in durability after ROHS kicked in (even at leaded temperature, working with 63/37 solder). However, in terms of pragmatism, the Weller gets a decent average score across all categories. Other irons outperform it, but can you get spares from RS inside 24 hours?

[AmplifyAudio]

Antex anyone?

I've used a few different Weller irons in the past, in a couple of different venues and at the electronics and engineering college I attended (in the mid 90s). Didn't find them that comfortable to use and some of the temperature controlled ones didn't seem great. Although, I do have a Weller Pyropen, which is really good.

I got given an RS branded Antex 660TC (RS 200-7693) from the service department of a venue I worked in around 2004 because they thought it was faulty. The iron was, but the control unit was fine! I've used it making hundreds of XLR cables, many patch panels, 2 48-way multicore systems with splits (so many more XLRs!) as well as all general repairs and stuff.

It heats to 325°C in about 20 seconds, has a good range of tips available from RS and other places, and I find it comfortable and lightweight to use. It's only 50w, but it goes up to to 450°C apparently. I've never had issues with it, all the way up to unsoldering electrolytic cans from guitar amp chassis'; somewhere I have a soldering gun that I've never used!

Why was the iron faulty? That was largely user error. The iron plugs into the unit via a 5-pin DIN 240 connector which if someone (not me) is bit ham-fisted, can be forced in upside down. If it's switched on like this, it damages the sensor in the iron and heats it until it's literally glowing red hot, which permanently damages the iron!

It does look like the newer version has a better metal locking connector, so might be worth looking at one of them maybe...

[ortek_service]

Maybe your Antex is better than the old Yellow-handled ones I last used in the 80's.
As I'd said in a previous post, I got rather fed up with those falling to bits due to overheating (these one didn't have temperature control) - The end of the handle got very hot (just where you needed to hold it!), often melting to the black-plastic heater-barrel support / thermal insulator cone (which also cracked and fell to bits). The slide on tips weren't very strong and snapped if you put too much pressure on them (whereas Weller TCP Tip were usually very strong, along with the double barrel).
The stiff non-silicone mains cable also had a habit of touching the tip. And the plastic Antex stand would often tip forward, with the weight of iron in it (I think they eventually put a metal weight in these)

I wouldn't have expected the copper, iron-clad and tinned Weller TCP to have RoHS issues, but I had noticed that some recent new ones looked like cheap copies with no engraved type numbers although the Rally trader claimed they were genuine. So maybe Weller have cheapened these.

I've not heard of Metcal bases not being rated to be left-on - when they do seem to be popular with many production departments - My works mostly had these, preferring the fixed temperature set by tips and many labs did buy them for a while, but more recently tend to prefer later Weller or JBC ones).
It seemed the Metcals did have a magnetic in base / reed switch in handle system to reduce temperature when in stand - as well as an annoying auto-sleep (possibly disable-able via access hole?) , needing to switch base off & on again as base couldn't detect iron had been picked-up once base had cut RF-power to it.
But as I've got lots of scrapped base units to try & fix one day (others had sometimes opened-up and gave-up with the complexity of them, even when they found a circuit), then it seems reliability isn't always too great (and much more to go wrong with RF Power generation)

The distance of tip to handle depends very much on the exact type of Iron tool chosen for each make. So the smallest JBC ones shouldn't be too much different from the miniature Weller WX and smaller Metcal ones.
But you can be restricted in only being able to use smaller tips with these, so might need some of the larger / standard Irons as well - assuming you don't need a different base as well!
Weller had gone through lots of slight pinout changes on their standard DIN plugs to ensure a higher-power Iron wouldn't work on an older less powerful bases, but newer bases would still generally work with older Irons and on some of their rework stations there was rotary switch for the different ones (including hot-air pencil, de-soldering tool and Hotplate etc.). But on latest WX ones, they did go to a rather different 13pin? connector that also supported 12V tools.

It's probably best to keep some common spares to hand, to save having to rely on urgent orders. Although Farnell & RS did at least normally stock most Weller etc. spares.
But they didn't sell JBC systems, so had to use Kaisertech etc. distributor and wait longer - Although I saw today in a Telonic UK catalogue that they do some JBC systems and provide overnight delivery in the UK.

[Craig Sawyers]

The first "decent" iron I had, and used throughout the 70's, was the yellow Antex. Pretty lousy in hindsight, and had the habit of sliding off the bench under the weight of the cable.

Human reflexes being what they are, I'd grab it as it fell, and always grabbed the hot end. Blistered hands was a definite user hazard with the yellow peril Antex.

Before even that, I recall a sort of triangular section handle iron that I had. Can't even remember what that one was.

Craig

[wd40addict]

I started with a triangular handled Remploy which was pretty useless, the Antex that replaced it was a revelation. That was replaced with a TC Antex and these days I use a Pace.

[Craig Sawyers]

Ah - that was it - Remploy! Just looked up images of it; I'd forgotten the light on it. 25W, and the tip held in with a split pin.

Astonishingly it seemed it gained a Design Award. What for I can hardly imagine. It was not for the ability to solder!

It was not a good iron.

Craig

[Craig Sawyers]

Using an open 1x scope probe next to the new Metcal iron's cable, into a 7A22 amp in a 7854 scope, looks like the induction frequency is close to 500kHz

Craig

[Craig Sawyers]

Much to my astonishment, Antex still manufacture the dreaded yellow peril 12W soldering iron

https://www.antex.co.uk/products/pre...ing-irons/m12/

Note the price!!

Craig

[AmplifyAudio]

Originally Posted by ortek_service

Maybe your Antex is better than the old Yellow-handled ones I last used in the 80's.

From reading your issues with them, I'd say very much yes!

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Much to my astonishment, Antex still manufacture the dreaded yellow peril 12W soldering iron

Note the price!!

Wow! That's not cheap... (Looks at price of TC50 and spits tea out) £57?! I paid about £23 for one from RS in 2005... Just checked and they are currently £45 including the dreaded!

[barrymagrec]

Originally Posted by Craig Sawyers

Ah - that was it - Remploy! Just looked up images of it; I'd forgotten the light on it. 25W, and the tip held in with a split pin.

Astonishingly it seemed it gained a Design Award. What for I can hardly imagine. It was not for the ability to solder!

It was not a good iron.

Craig

My former boss characterised it as "that soldering iron made by the disabled people where the handle gets hotter than the tip"

[G0HZU_JMR]

I still have most of my old soldering irons stored away in a container. In the image below is my ancient yellow Antex 15W, a very scary Weller 'Pyropen' hot air pencil/iron, an old red portasol butane iron and a skip salvaged Antex 25W iron that is still in the box unused.

None of these get used any more but I think they all work. The boxed Antex iron has never been powered up but I assume it will work.

One day all of my Weller WSD8x irons will probably be stored away with them but for now I'm still quite happy with the performance of the Weller WSD8x series.

[jamesinnewcastl]

Ah yes!

I had a blue triangular Remploy too!! And the little light that really didn't do anything. I wasn't aware that it was bad - just my dad saying to me 'let it get hot son, it's got to be hot.....'

So far I have had all the irons that have scored 1/10!

Hmmmmmm.....


Cheers
James

[Oldcodger]

Possibly another "Marmite" tool. All my Wellers have been salvaged from bin at work jobs. So I'm impressed on how long they lasted. Latest one is an EC 1201, where the temperature sensor failed .I use the iron with no sensor for quick jobs.
But considering that I've had a decent iron for circa 40+ years out of my ability to repair what firms decided to throw out, I'm happy.