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Old 11th Aug 2021, 1:59 pm   #21
Aub
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

The Mischief maker in me thinks it's an experiment to see how we manage without terrestrial broadcasts.😉

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Old 11th Aug 2021, 2:23 pm   #22
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

A lot will depend on whether the mast is significantly structurally damaged. If there's no chance of a collapse then a temporary service could be established relatively quickly, which is what happened after the Oxford fire. If the mast needs to be completely demolished and rebuilt then it may be out of action for years, with any emergency service reliant on temporary masts and directional services from other transmitters.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 3:25 pm   #23
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

There are plenty of news reports, but very little actual information in them. Everything you can read has been filtered through a meeja studies qualified journalism organisation who dumbed it down to what they thought the public would understand. The name of the site and the photo of a tubular mast spewing black smoke out the top and a few intermediary holes is about all that can be trusted until some proper reports come out.

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Old 11th Aug 2021, 4:11 pm   #24
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

The fire was mentioned on the Jeremy Vine programme on radio 2 today. They had the man who designed the mast on the phone. Now in his 90s, but as usual with J.V lots of waffle and sensationalism but not a lot of information.
Jeremy said it was being repaired and would soon be on the air again soon. I wonder if that is true or just what he thinks?
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 4:14 pm   #25
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

What REALLY annoyed me was on Todays "Jeremy Vine" so called show at 12 "Radio 2"..he called anyone remotely interested in the Bilsdale fire as "NERDS"...I immediately turn that clown off anyway.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 5:17 pm   #26
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Quote:
The Mischief maker in me thinks it's an experiment to see how we manage without terrestrial broadcasts.��
I don't think it was a deliberate experiment but may well be used as such though.

Are tubular masts better than the lattice type?
 
Old 11th Aug 2021, 5:20 pm   #27
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

If this had happened in London it would be fixed immediately
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 5:37 pm   #28
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Arquiva haven't made any mention of it on their own website.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 5:59 pm   #29
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Wonder if the people who use Bilsdale Transmitter get refunds for TV licence and mobile phone contracts for lack of coverage
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 6:21 pm   #30
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

There are lots of comments along those lines from the outraged residents of Hartlepool and Middlesbrough in local media outlets. It's not really the BBC's fault though.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 6:51 pm   #31
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Isn't "Someone else's problem" the ultimate definition of invisibility?
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 6:52 pm   #32
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Hi Paul seen some of the comments I feel sorry for the people that TV is their only lifeline and not every one has smart TV or broadband or Sky and there will be a Mobile network black spot kind regards Bob
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 6:58 pm   #33
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Immediately?

I lived through the fall and replacement of Emley, only a few miles away. Everything possible was thrown at that problem. A temporary mast was brought from Sweden, if I remember rightly and a rigging crew from Eastern Europe. These things weren't kept in reserve near London, just in case.

Consideration was given to moving transmitters into temporary buildings at Holme Moss, and also to using tethered balloons.

We still had BBC1 405 lines on VHF channel 2 from Holme Moss, but the IBA companies found their advertisers wanted an immediate rate cut with the diminished audience. The viewers didn't get a licence fee rebate.

The people who did the work were amazing. If they'd had to work and move things in a more congested area like London, I expect it would have been slower.

Concrete foundations take time to cure before they are up to taking their design load. Yes, Acme Products of Burbank CA do make instant set concrete, but it's expensive and sets instantly, wrecking mixer trucks. Readymix at Canker Lane in Huddersfield refuse to touch the stuff.

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Last edited by Radio Wrangler; 14th Aug 2021 at 2:41 am. Reason: Holme moss was channel 2. either a typo or I'm going gaga.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 7:04 pm   #34
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

It's a serious business, especially for the elderly non-techy Freeview audience. Hartlepool in particular is a real blind spot for the Pontop Pike muxes. Mobile phone coverage is less of an issue unless you're a rambler on the moors.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 7:12 pm   #35
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

In times-past, tubular masts [both steel and concrete] were stabilised against crosswind-excited oscillations by hanging a chain down the centre of the mast, this chain was often covered with 'lagging' [hessian, sometimes impregnated with tallow or similar] to damp any shockwaves if the mast was wind-excited sufficiently that the chain started to hit the inside of the mast.

I guess any such combustible 'filling' inside a nice vertical chimney would burn rather well!
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 7:18 pm   #36
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell

Are tubular masts better than the lattice type?
As I understand it very much not as good as they can oscillate which has supposedly been a factor in the two collapses at Waltham and Emley Moor. I believe all/some the current tubular masts (Mendip, Waltham, Winter Hill, Belmont and Bilsdale) have heavy chains (50 tonnes worth) hung inside to dampen the oscillations.

Of course the engineers didn't know that would happen and the idea of having a mast that was enclosed was seen as a good thing for the workers/maintainers of said masts, not least because it allowed a lift to be fitted saving a lot of climbing.

Note that in Britain all new masts are lattice and I haven't heard of any being built anywhere else.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 7:44 pm   #37
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Does anybody know if the various Bilsdale relays are off air, or do they have a satellite backup feed?
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 8:18 pm   #38
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Does anybody know if the various Bilsdale relays are off air, or do they have a satellite backup feed?
As Bilsdale has no major relays they will all be off air reception of Bilsdale, AFAIK only Fremont Point on Jersey uses a satellite feed for TV and that has different multiplexes to the rest of the UK.
As for Bilsdake itself, main stations (and some important relays) are generally line/microwave fed for TV/Radio.

I suppose it's lucky that this has happened where it has rather than in somewhere like the welsh valleys where it would have knocked off a lot more relays.
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 8:44 pm   #39
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by dglcomp View Post
...As Bilsdale has no major relays.....
I guess it depends on what you mean by "major" relays, there are at least three relays close to where I live that may well be considered major to the folk who have lost their Freeview light services, the relays in question being Guisborough, Skinningrove and Glaisdale (I'm not sure if that's know by a different name that eludes me at present, Limber Hill perhaps?)

One of my jobs on my day off tomorrow is to go to my partner's parents and rotate their aerial to point at Pontop Pike and retune their set, so they at least have some Freeview service, they do have a Smart TV but aren't too confident in how to use it.

Although I do have cable, I don't really watch TV that much.
Where I live, despite being in one of Bilsdale's primary service areas, because of the lie of the land Pontop Pike is our better option for Freeview reception.

Andrew
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Old 11th Aug 2021, 8:46 pm   #40
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Default Re: Bilsdale mast fire

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Originally Posted by Aub View Post
The Mischief maker in me thinks it's an experiment to see how we manage without terrestrial broadcasts.��

Aub

I had a discussion about this with a fiend as we walked up past the Hannington mast. He wondered if the cost of the infrastructure would be justified when everyone was "fibred up".

I can certainly see a time when terrestrial TV is wound up, but some other services using the masts might keep them viable.
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