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Old 27th Nov 2020, 7:31 pm   #1
lloydwells
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Default Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

This has just struck me as an idea I have a fair collection of early electro mechanical clocks the most recently purchased being a Brillie which runs by using a pair of contacts worked by the pendulum to turn off and on an electro magnet which gives the pendulum a shove in the opposite direction.
Later versions of this clock used a transistor to switch the electromagnet on and off so I'm assuming if you can do it with a transistor you could do it with a valve flip flop if some sort ??
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Old 27th Nov 2020, 7:39 pm   #2
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Yes, the filament power would make it a bit hungry on power and valves are a high impedance device, you would need loads of very thin turns of wire on the electromagnet. Wire in transistor clocks is small enough anyway.
 
Old 27th Nov 2020, 7:51 pm   #3
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Perhaps use a cold cathode trigger tube (cold cathode thyratron)

Maybe something like Z803U http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa0439.htm

just a thought

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Old 28th Nov 2020, 8:19 am   #4
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Reminds me I have an electric pendulum type clock as described in post No1. It does not have any form of transistor. Its a non worker at the moment as one of the very fine wires that connects around the pivot to the pendulum coil is broken.
I had thought of using a monostable to give a defined pulse width to the coil, it seems to me that relying on the contacts alone would give a "kick" that was quite variable.

Must dig it out of the loft.

Peter
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Old 28th Nov 2020, 8:50 am   #5
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

The contacts are quite clever, with a small swing they stay closed longer giving a big kick, big swing small kick. Simple amplitude regulation.
 
Old 28th Nov 2020, 11:42 am   #6
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

A valve controlled clock is no doubt possible, but I have never seen one, no doubt due to the cost and power consumption.
A valve timebase might be less accurate than a synchronous clock or a mechanical movement.
Also vulnerable to power cuts. A central clock system with a master clock could be fitted with a central accumalator or bank of dry cells to display the correct time without mains electricity.

A conventional mechanical clock, but with electric winding was also immune to power cuts or to frequency variations.

I recall a very early battery pendulum clock that was powered by a D cell contained in the pendulum bob. A coil of fine wire around the pendulum was energised in pulses to attract it towards a fixed permanent magnet.
I think that a mercury switch was innvolved.
The clock was home built, but from a kit, not from scratch.
It kept good time.
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Old 28th Nov 2020, 3:24 pm   #7
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Yes, a valve controlled clock is possible, though I haven't come across any mass-produced domestic clocks using valves.

Lots of clocks used transistors or integrated circuits from the 1950s to the present day. The first transistor-controlled electric clock was patented in 1953 by the French company ATO. There's a page here which shows some of their electrically-switched clocks, including the transistor one. I believe it was first developed using valves, but not marketed until the transistor made it much more practical and able to run on primary batteries. The oldest electronic transistor-switched pendulum clock I have was made by Schatz of Germany in 1958.

Apparently ATO developed a radio-controlled clock as early as 1928. It was synchronised to time signals broadcast from the Eiffel Tower, presumably received by a valve radio.

The history of electric clocks goes back a long way, to the 1800s. Looking at the AHS website https://www.ahsoc.org/groups/electrical-horology-group/
it mentions an experimental quartz clock was invented in 1927. It must have used valves since transistors hadn't been invented then. The size, cost and power requirements would have ruled it out for consumer use. Maybe a few science labs had such clocks, where accuracy was more important than cost.

Mass-produced quartz clocks and watches started appearing in the 1970s. By then, transistors were commonplace. It's clearly impossible to build a valve digital quartz wristwatch, but it is possible to build a valve-controlled clock of some description, as can be seen in the above articles. Could be a fun DIY project.
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Old 28th Nov 2020, 3:38 pm   #8
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

The first atomic clock was all valve, made by Essen at the NPL.
 
Old 2nd Dec 2020, 8:01 am   #9
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Maybe this is helpfull (it includes a receiver for time pulses): https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j...FZdRokyZWxoHID

If the link doesn't work than try this (in Google): "Eine andere Röhrenuhr" site:jogis-roehrenbude.de
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 9:02 am   #10
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Gribnau View Post
Maybe this is helpfull (it includes a receiver for time pulses): https://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j...FZdRokyZWxoHID

If the link doesn't work than try this (in Google): "Eine andere Röhrenuhr" site:jogis-roehrenbude.de
I think that definatively answers the OPs question, and here is how to do it.
A totally pointless project, exactly the sort we all ought to build..

Peter
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 10:40 am   #11
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Wonderful absolutelyTrev
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 2:02 pm   #12
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

I like it, nice and silly!
 
Old 2nd Dec 2020, 2:53 pm   #13
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

He missed a trick, the divider from the Mainflingen frequency could have been done with Dekatrons, thereby greatly increasing the eye candy coefficient.

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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 4:06 pm   #14
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

A valve clock with a higher eye candy coefficient: http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Lese...Roehrenuhr.htm
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 4:52 pm   #15
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

That has wow factor, Robert.

The heat might be too much to run that clock in summer, though.

But what does he do next after that? an all-valve CD player?

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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 4:56 pm   #16
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Quote:
after more than seven years of construction
Mad, totally mad, I like it too.
 
Old 2nd Dec 2020, 7:33 pm   #17
Trevor
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Simply stunning
A master class in building
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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 8:59 pm   #18
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

That takes us into Colossus territory, magnificent!

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Old 2nd Dec 2020, 10:38 pm   #19
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

It is really rather super! Love it!
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Old 3rd Dec 2020, 2:27 pm   #20
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Default Re: Valve controlled clock a possibility ??

Complete beautiful insanity. I love it.
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