Decca 205 Deram record player. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

EF80TVVALVE · 13th Jan 2022, 11:12 pm

Hi all

I've recently picked up one of these record players and decided this evening to have a quick look. The amplifier will need the usual going over, as will the Garrard changer but overall it is in fairly good condition.

The first real problem I have is that the Deram cartridge has been replaced with a BSR type and the cushion for the stylus has almost completely solidified. I just wondered if anyone can help identify which type of Deram cartridge was fitted? From what I understand there were various colours denoting output levels and I'm hoping to find one to replace this BSR cartridge and return it to how it was intended to be.

RojDW48 · 14th Jan 2022, 12:49 am

Garrard AT5 or 6 autochanger? The problem I recall with the Deram mounts is the tiny little tags at the back, which become blobs after a few reconnectings. Do you have a useable Deram mount?

Edward Huggins · 14th Jan 2022, 9:31 am

I know of no variation of the Deram other than the stylus type. Your Decca record player was expressly designed for use with a Deram (c.50mV) and any other type, especially a BSR, will probably overload the input stage of the amplifer. The Deram player was only ever fitted with a Garrard AT5 autochanger.

EF80TVVALVE · 14th Jan 2022, 10:46 am

Thanks both for your replies. I don't have any mounts for a deram cartridge, the BSR type fitted looks to have been done long ago and there is no sign of any deram parts left at all. As Edward confirms it is fitted with an AT5.

Edward, thanks for confirming the spec of the Deram cartridge, I did think that the BSR fitted would be too much for the amplifier and it seems so as the volume control is very steep. I must have confused myself somewhat about the different Deram models and maybe the colour instead indicates different types of construction, stylus etc and not output level. It seems they do pop up frequently and luckily haven't attracted a following, so if I keep my eyes peeled hopefully one will come up without breaking the bank.

Chiltern · 14th Jan 2022, 12:35 pm

As I understand it, the colour of the cartridge denoted the advised playing weight, the black housing version used with changers.

Difficulty I found with the Deram is getting a replacement stylus that actually works well. On the last 205 that I had, I went down the route of replacing the cartridge with something more available and modding the input to the amp.

I've had a number of these 205's over the years, the cost of the output valve would put me off buying another.

Do have these trim parts if useful to any owners.

Alan

Herald1360 · 14th Jan 2022, 1:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiltern

....

I've had a number of these 205's over the years, the cost of the output valve would put me off buying another.

......

Alan

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/re...ll80_tube.html

Provides some possible replacement tactics.

EF80TVVALVE · 14th Jan 2022, 1:32 pm

Hi Alan,

This is something I am thinking about, after reading of the same problems regarding the stylus it may be a better route. I think the Sonotone 9TA may be a good replacement, they were well regarded in their time. I will send you a PM regarding the trim, funnily enough mine is missing one of those rings so I'd very much appreciate one.

Herald1360, thanks for the link, I'll have a read of that, luckily the output valve is okay but these things are good to know and keep in mind. It doesn't exactly sound great with this BSR fitted so I look forward to hearing it once it's sorted.

Robint 47 · 14th Jan 2022, 3:13 pm

If memory serves me right the Deram in white with a blue stylus mount was for LP a black version with a green stylus pocket for 78 I might still have a mount for a DTSC iwill look but don,t hold your breath.
Robin

Edward Huggins · 14th Jan 2022, 3:14 pm

Whilst the Sonotone 9TA (ideally the 9TA/HC) is a most excellent cartridge, it will still overload the first AF stage of the Decca amplifer, the volume control will become non-linear and it will distort earlier. If you do go ahead with the Sonotone, you may need to fit a simple attenuating circuit.

Chiltern · 14th Jan 2022, 3:28 pm

Deram details from '65 yearbook

Alan

RojDW48 · 14th Jan 2022, 4:14 pm

Yes - styli are a problem - the generic replacements are too stiff, but the originals do come up occasionally.

Hartley118 · 14th Jan 2022, 10:49 pm

I recall using a Deram cartridge back in the 1960s when it was then a current design. I found it very temperature sensitive. Whilst it performed well at normal living room temperatures, above 20C, it’s compliance fell off drastically at the low temperatures encountered in my outdoor shack/studio and even warming up the room took a few hours to get through to the cartridge and restore its low frequency tracking capability.

Martin

EF80TVVALVE · 15th Jan 2022, 5:11 pm

Hi all

Edward, that will be the plan if I decide to go with the sonotone route, thinking about which cartridge to go for is difficult but the 9TAHC offers a relatively low output (not quite as low as the Deram) and was a well regarded cartridge in its time, quality wise I'm sure it gets closer to the Deram than most other ceramic cartridges of the same age. I will post a wanted thread in hopes somebody has a Deram first and go from there.

Thanks for the info Alan, so it seems I would need a black Deram cartridge, or that the black was most likely fitted to and suited for this type of player.

Regarding the stylus problem, this does seem to be a well known thing and one of the first things I found when reading up on the Deram cartridge, if I do go down the Deram route then I will almost certainly look for an original stylus, I'm sure they will turn up frequently as it looks to have been a popular cartridge.

13th Jan 2022, 11:12 pm	#1
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Decca 205 Deram record player. Hi all I've recently picked up one of these record players and decided this evening to have a quick look. The amplifier will need the usual going over, as will the Garrard changer but overall it is in fairly good condition. The first real problem I have is that the Deram cartridge has been replaced with a BSR type and the cushion for the stylus has almost completely solidified. I just wondered if anyone can help identify which type of Deram cartridge was fitted? From what I understand there were various colours denoting output levels and I'm hoping to find one to replace this BSR cartridge and return it to how it was intended to be.

14th Jan 2022, 12:49 am	#2
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: Decca 205 Deram record playetr Garrard AT5 or 6 autochanger? The problem I recall with the Deram mounts is the tiny little tags at the back, which become blobs after a few reconnectings. Do you have a useable Deram mount? __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

14th Jan 2022, 9:31 am	#3
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Decca 205 Deram record playetr I know of no variation of the Deram other than the stylus type. Your Decca record player was expressly designed for use with a Deram (c.50mV) and any other type, especially a BSR, will probably overload the input stage of the amplifer. The Deram player was only ever fitted with a Garrard AT5 autochanger. __________________ Edward.

14th Jan 2022, 10:46 am	#4
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. Thanks both for your replies. I don't have any mounts for a deram cartridge, the BSR type fitted looks to have been done long ago and there is no sign of any deram parts left at all. As Edward confirms it is fitted with an AT5. Edward, thanks for confirming the spec of the Deram cartridge, I did think that the BSR fitted would be too much for the amplifier and it seems so as the volume control is very steep. I must have confused myself somewhat about the different Deram models and maybe the colour instead indicates different types of construction, stylus etc and not output level. It seems they do pop up frequently and luckily haven't attracted a following, so if I keep my eyes peeled hopefully one will come up without breaking the bank.

14th Jan 2022, 12:35 pm	#5
Chiltern Heptode Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 555	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. As I understand it, the colour of the cartridge denoted the advised playing weight, the black housing version used with changers. Difficulty I found with the Deram is getting a replacement stylus that actually works well. On the last 205 that I had, I went down the route of replacing the cartridge with something more available and modding the input to the amp. I've had a number of these 205's over the years, the cost of the output valve would put me off buying another. Do have these trim parts if useful to any owners. Alan Attached Thumbnails

14th Jan 2022, 1:32 pm	#7
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. Hi Alan, This is something I am thinking about, after reading of the same problems regarding the stylus it may be a better route. I think the Sonotone 9TA may be a good replacement, they were well regarded in their time. I will send you a PM regarding the trim, funnily enough mine is missing one of those rings so I'd very much appreciate one. Herald1360, thanks for the link, I'll have a read of that, luckily the output valve is okay but these things are good to know and keep in mind. It doesn't exactly sound great with this BSR fitted so I look forward to hearing it once it's sorted. Last edited by EF80TVVALVE; 14th Jan 2022 at 1:38 pm.

14th Jan 2022, 3:13 pm	#8
Robint 47 Tetrode Join Date: May 2014 Location: Bridgnorth, Shropshire, UK. Posts: 51	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. If memory serves me right the Deram in white with a blue stylus mount was for LP a black version with a green stylus pocket for 78 I might still have a mount for a DTSC iwill look but don,t hold your breath. Robin

14th Jan 2022, 3:14 pm	#9
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,327	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. Whilst the Sonotone 9TA (ideally the 9TA/HC) is a most excellent cartridge, it will still overload the first AF stage of the Decca amplifer, the volume control will become non-linear and it will distort earlier. If you do go ahead with the Sonotone, you may need to fit a simple attenuating circuit. __________________ Edward.

14th Jan 2022, 3:28 pm	#10
Chiltern Heptode Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Somerset, UK. Posts: 555	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. Deram details from '65 yearbook Alan Attached Thumbnails

14th Jan 2022, 4:14 pm	#11
RojDW48 Nonode Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bristol, UK. Posts: 2,074	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. Yes - styli are a problem - the generic replacements are too stiff, but the originals do come up occasionally. __________________ '....don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road!' (Bob Dylan)

14th Jan 2022, 10:49 pm	#12
Hartley118 Nonode Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Cambridge, Cambs. UK. Posts: 2,198	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. I recall using a Deram cartridge back in the 1960s when it was then a current design. I found it very temperature sensitive. Whilst it performed well at normal living room temperatures, above 20C, it’s compliance fell off drastically at the low temperatures encountered in my outdoor shack/studio and even warming up the room took a few hours to get through to the cartridge and restore its low frequency tracking capability. Martin __________________ BVWS Member

15th Jan 2022, 5:11 pm	#13
EF80TVVALVE Octode Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Leicester, UK. Posts: 1,433	Re: Decca 205 Deram record player. Hi all Edward, that will be the plan if I decide to go with the sonotone route, thinking about which cartridge to go for is difficult but the 9TAHC offers a relatively low output (not quite as low as the Deram) and was a well regarded cartridge in its time, quality wise I'm sure it gets closer to the Deram than most other ceramic cartridges of the same age. I will post a wanted thread in hopes somebody has a Deram first and go from there. Thanks for the info Alan, so it seems I would need a black Deram cartridge, or that the black was most likely fitted to and suited for this type of player. Regarding the stylus problem, this does seem to be a well known thing and one of the first things I found when reading up on the Deram cartridge, if I do go down the Deram route then I will almost certainly look for an original stylus, I'm sure they will turn up frequently as it looks to have been a popular cartridge.