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Old 2nd Feb 2023, 2:12 pm   #1
SiriusHardware
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Default Dataman Mempro

During a recent departmental move here at work I found a very dusty looking Dataman 'Mempro' programmer which is a relatively modern 'proper' memory device programmer - USB connected but independently powered so it doesn't struggle to generate the programming voltages required by older devices, and the support software goes all the way up to Win 11. As the name suggests it is focused on memory devices only, so it does not support microcontrollers such as PICs.

What's interesting (and hence relevant in this section) is the considerable age of some of the memory devices it still supports, among them 2708s (various manufacturers) 2532s, both Hitachi and Texas versions, and the Motorola 68764 and 68766. The 2532s and the Motorola EPROMs are particularly useful as drop-in replacements for some of the 24-pin mask-programmed ROMs used in late 70s / early 80s computers.

If any of you have a need to program such old EPROM devices, it might be worth looking out for one of these.

Device support list, Windows support software and manual are all here:-

https://www.dataman.com/dataman-mempro-resources

Even if you don't have one of these programmers (yet) I suggest you grab these resources while you still can because you never know when they might be taken down.

There is unfortunately one group of memory devices which are completely missing from the support list and that is Bipolar PROMs so if you also need to program these you'll have to go for something like the Dataman '48Pro2' or one of its clones, (For example, Elnec 'Beeprog2') all of which are only a little bit shy of £1000 at the time of writing.

Last edited by SiriusHardware; 2nd Feb 2023 at 2:39 pm.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 12:13 am   #2
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

Yes, I recall the (quite low-priced at the time) Dataman MEMPro - as well as the rather similar PIKPro and T51Pro 'Specialised Programmers'.

And these were basically just a deliberately-restricted Dataman 40-Pro, as you can buy a small plug-in 'upgrade unlock dongle' PCB (at £175+VAT!):
https://www.dataman.com/xpro-upgrade...ro-t51pro.html

RS did sell the MEMPro: https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/chip-programmers/0384901
- Now discontinued, and 'Replaced' by the 'fuller' / less-restricted / more capable (but more-expensive) Dataman 40-Pro.
Which RS are selling for £723 (Inc. VAT). However, Dataman are selling it direct for a lot less at £425+VAT=£510:
https://www.dataman.com/programmers.html


However, whilst the MemPro (Like all Dataman 'Pro' series programmers), does support the 2708 (And also the rather less-common 2704), they all required a special '2708-module' adaptor, to provide the additional supply rails. And that's another £105+VAT to get one from Dataman:
https://www.dataman.com/adapters/mem...ro.html#Cat121
- Although it should be possible to make your own rather cheaper, as they probably didn't have the code-protected PIC ID IC on these. Although, I've never actually physically seen one / a good-enough picture to see what they consist of / couldn't find anyone who'd rev-Eng'd one.

Unfortunately, the Dataman 40-Pro (Like the even-more restricted specialised versions of it) still doesn't support Bipolar-PROM's
- Even though it has plenty of pin(drivers) etc. and uses the same control software as the 48Pro(+/2) ones that do. So I suspect another deliberate restriction.

Dataman do also sell an S6 (at £650+VAT) - But it's not really anything like the older S3/S4 (and S5 never seemed to get sold) 'Softy' ones - USB-powered one. However, this doesn't support either 2708's or Bipolar-PROM's at all!


So the cheapest one they do, that does support the 2708 (albeit with the extra 2708-module), as well as Bipolar PROM's is the 'full version' 48Pro2, that's rather expensive at £865+VAT = £1038 direct from them.
There is a slightly-cheaper (£765+VAT) 48Pro2C version, but the device-list doesn't list the 2708 (or any Bipolar-PROM's), even though H/W spec. looks the same. In 2015, the 48Pro2C did support 86,000 rather than 88,000 for the 48Pro2, and I discovered it's another case of a deliberately-restricted model, that costs £245+VAT for the small Unlock Dongle board: https://www.dataman.com/xpro2-upgrad...n-48pro2c.html
Therefore it doesn't really seem worth buying a 48Pro2C, if you ever want to use these older devices, as end-up paying rather more overall with the unlock 'upgrade'.

Note: The Dataman Pro-Series (and their control software) are actually rebadged Elnec designs.
So they should have equivalent Elnec models (but not as easily obtainable in the UK etc.)


However, it is apparently possible to obtain used Dataman 48Pro's for rather less than £300 - Often less than the Advantech-designed original Dataman 48(LV/(U)XP) models go for (and whose free software was frozen a long time ago and now requires expensive yearly-subscription to later versions. Plus never supported 2708's or Tesla PROM's)

Last edited by ortek_service; 4th Feb 2023 at 12:28 am.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 10:51 am   #3
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

I noticed that the Mempro can be 'upgraded' to a 40Pro by fitting a tiny £175+VAT dongle. Thanks for pointing out that it needs an adaptor to program 2708s, that was a detail I had not noticed. No doubt that adaptor, if still available, is also ridiculously priced.

The Mempro I found at work, I've been told I can actually have it if I want it, so for a starting cost of zero it might be worth my while paying the insane cost of the dongle to make it into a 40Pro, as the 48Pro units still go for as much as £300-£500 second hand.

I have seriously considered buying a 48Pro2 (avoiding the cut-down versions like the 48Pro2C, as you say) because at the moment I have to keep an old Windows 98 PC running just to run my mid-nineties Hi-Lo systems All07A, which is what I currently use to program Bipolar PROMs.

If I sold the All07A and my ICE TECH Micromaster 1000E - both very high end programmers costing ~£700-£800 in their day, that might raise a decent amount of money towards the cost of a modern replacement which will work with a computer with a current OS.

The 48Pro2 (and clones like the Elnec 'Beeprog2') are also virtually the only modern programmers which support the troublesome Tesla PROM devices like the MH74S571.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 12:52 pm   #4
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

The 2708-Module adaptor, that is needed by all the Pro series ones that do support the 2708, is still listed as being available. And the £105+VAT cost (as mentioned in my previous reply) isn't too outrageous, considering the cost of some of their adaptors (especially the PIC uc ID-chip protected ones), which are virtually all just a socket & pin-out mapping converter. (Although some test sockets can be quite expensive for branded / BGA etc ones).

Dataman do seem very good at still keeping all the free-download resources online, for all their programmers right back to the long-discontinued S3. And still sell spare PSU's / Battery-packs / cables etc for these, at fairly-reasonable prices.

Looking at the (2015-Apr) Specification PDF's, the MEMPro supported 16,000 devices, whilst the 'Unlocked' fuller, less-restricted, 40-Pro supported 32,000 of the most-popular devices.
(It does seem they count each suffix etc version as a different device, so even though they have a separate line on the device list / separate choice in the program's device menu, many will just be a different package of the same die)

But that is still rather lower than the 88,000 the full Dataman 48Pro2 supported.
Whilst some of this discrepancy could be due to deliberately forcing you to buy the more-expensive 48-pin version, there are also some important h/w differences (besides 8 extra pin-drivers) between that and the 40-Pro, which lists spec as:

ZIF Socket Pindriver
• 40-pin DIL ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) socket accepts both 300/600 mil devices up to 40-pins
• Pindrivers: 40 TTL pindrivers, specialized GND/VCC/VPP pindriver
• FPGA based TTL driver provides H, L, CLK, pull-up, pull-down on all pindriver pins; level H selectable from 1.8V up to 5V
• Continuity test: each pin is tested before every programming operation


Base Unit (DAC)
• Two D/A converters for VCCP and VPP, controllable rise and fall time
• VCCP range 2V..7V/350mA
• VPP range 2V..25V/200mA
• USB 2.0/1.1 compatible interface
• Auto calibration
• Self test capability

ISP Connector
• 10-pin male type with miss insertion lock
• 5 TTL pindrivers, provides H, L, CLK, pull-up, pull-down; level H selectable from 1.8V up to 5V to handle all (low-voltage including) devices
• 1x VCCP voltage (range 2V..7V/100mA) (*1) and 1x VPP voltage (range 2V..25V/50mA)
• Programmed chip voltage (VCCP) with both source/sink capability and
voltage sense

Whereas the 48Pro2, lists:

ZIF Socket
• 48-pin DIL ZIF socket accepts both 300/600 mil devices up to 48-pin
• Pindrivers: 48 universal
• VCCP/VPP1/VPP2 can be connected to each pin
• Perfect ground for each pin
• FPGA based TTL driver provides H, L, CLK, pull-up, pull-down on all pindriver pins
• Analog pindriver output level selectable from 1.8V up to 26V
• Current limitation, overcurrent shutdown, power failure shutdown
• ESD protection on each pin (IEC1000-4-2: 15kV air, 8kV contact)
• Continuity test: each pin is tested before every programming operation

Base Unit (DAC)
• On-board intelligence: powerful microprocessor and FPGA based state machine
• Three D/A converters for VCCP, VPP1, and VPP2, controllable rise and fall time
• VCCP range 0..8V/1A
• VPP1, VPP2 range 0..26V/1A
• Selftest capability

ISP Connector
• 20-pin male type with missinsertion lock
• 6 TTL pindrivers, provides H, L, CLK, pull-up, pull-down; level H selectable
from 1.8V up to 5V to handle all (including low-voltage) devices
• 1x VCCP voltage (range 2V..7V/100mA), can be applied to two pins
• Programmed chip voltage (VCCP) with both source/sink capability and voltage sense
• 1x VPP voltage (range 2V..25V/50mA), can be applied to six pins
• Target system supply voltage (range 2V..6V/250mA)
• ESD protection on each pin (IEC1000-4-2: 15kV air, 8kV contact)
• Two output signals, which indicate state of work result = LED OK and LED Error (active level: min 1.8V)
• Input signal, switch YES! equivalent (active level: max. 0.8V)


So essentially, the 48Pro2 has 3 rather than 2 DAC-controlled voltages-in-programming supplies (Although still need an additional negative 5V, for the 2708 etc, with 4 supplies needed to program that)
And VCCP and VPP(1/2) supplies on the 48-Pro2 go all the way down to 0V (rather than 2V min, although 40-Pro is stated to support 1V8 devices, so maybe there's a VCC as well as VCCP DAC that does go lower, if Pin-drivers do operate down to 1V8) and also 1V higher than those on the 40-Pro h/w. But crucially, the DAC Programming supplies all go upto 1A (rather than 350mA / 200mA, that 40-Pro h/w is limited-to) - And probably restricts the ability to program fusible-link PROM's.
The 48-Pro(2) also has a more-versatile ISP connector.

Strangely, the 40-Pro spec does start:
Programmer (ZIF Socket)
• BI-PROM

But I hadn't noticed any PROM's from a search of the device list for it.

Used 48Pro(+) models, may well be available rather-cheaper (often less than the not so well supported Advantech-designed first Dataman 48(LV/(U)XP) unit, they still sell for quite a lot) than the (still-current) 48Pro2 model.

For reading/programming older devices, there shouldn't be much-difference in practice between the 48Pro & 48Pro2 . Some of the adaptors on the Pro2-series are different to those required by the original Pro-series, apparently for higher-speed, but a bit annoying for those companies who've got a collection of the older adaptors and looking to buy some newer 48-Pro2 units, where you may have to buy more adaptors.
(Although many of the initial 48(LV/(U)XP) model ones, aren't usual on the Pro-series, due to different pin-mapping / added ID-protection

I believe control-software support is effectively frozen for the non 2-suffix units, so may not be getting newer devices and I doubt they'll add any further obsolete parts in future to the software

Note: The Dataman 48Pro etc series are really clones of the Elnec ones, as it is actually Elnec who design these, write the software / sometimes directly provide support, with daily-update versions, for newly requested devices) and also manufacture the adaptors (Have made in Slovakia label on these)

If only wanting to get 2708 support, then one of the several programmer projects for these on the 'net will probably be rather lower-cost. And some of these will also support even more obscure ones, that the Dataman / Elnec ones are unlikely ever to do.
Once there's some cheap Bipolar-PROM (particularly for Tesla ones) available for modern-PC's, then also less-need for an expensive Dataman / Elnec one.
Although scarcity / cost of Blank NOS Bipolar-PROM's is maybe likely to be much more of a problem in the near future, with many NS ones now all gone.

Last edited by ortek_service; 4th Feb 2023 at 12:58 pm.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 1:56 pm   #5
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

I have my 'Oddy' Tesla programmer PCB fully built now, just need to find the time to start cooking the Arduino code needed to run it. I will do it, because the cost of populating the PCB wasn't insignificant and it would be a bit of a waste if I didn't follow through eventually.
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 9:30 pm   #6
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
I have my 'Oddy' Tesla programmer PCB fully built now, just need to find the time to start cooking the Arduino code needed to run it.
I’d be interested to see what you come up with. I also bought the same pcb some time back but haven’t had a chance to assemble it yet (a Softy1, second MK14 and Pic14 module are also waiting in the wings).
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 12:23 pm   #7
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

Have you got all the bits for yours? I have a few spare bits like the SMPSU IC, inductor, diode and 2 x low ESR capacitors for the SMPSU section as I had to order more than one. I may also be able to find a 74C906.
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Old 10th Feb 2023, 6:26 pm   #8
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Default Re: Dataman Mempro

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusHardware View Post
Have you got all the bits for yours? I have a few spare bits like the SMPSU IC, inductor, diode and 2 x low ESR capacitors for the SMPSU section as I had to order more than one. I may also be able to find a 74C906.
Thanks. I haven't started pulling the BOM together just yet. I'll PM you.
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