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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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22nd Jun 2005, 2:54 pm | #1 |
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Band 3 in Ireland
I recently spent a pleasant (and amazingly dry and sunny!) week in Ireland and was intrigued to see a great number of Band 3 aerials atop chimneys.
In many cases these were most definitely new (or nearly new) unlike the odd one or two that can still be spotted in England. Can someone tell me for what use they are intended in the YOOL 2005?? Thanks, Trevor. |
22nd Jun 2005, 4:02 pm | #2 | |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
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22nd Jun 2005, 4:20 pm | #3 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Was there ever Band I television in Ireland (Eire) too, during the 405 period ?
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22nd Jun 2005, 4:26 pm | #4 | |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Quote:
RTE TV MAIN TRANSMITTERS Band 1 (Low VHF) Channels are A,B,C (Band 1 no longer used for TV transmission) Band 3 (High VHF) Channels are D,E,F,G,H,I,J (Ch J no longer used for TV transmission) UHF Channels are 21-69 SITE(County) RTE1 NET2 TV3 TG4 Pol. E.R.P. SERVICE AREA CAIRN HILL (Longford) 40 43 46 50 H 800kW Midlands CLERMONT CARN(Louth) 52 56 66 68 V 250kW North-East HOLYWELL HILL(Donegal) 23 26 29 33 H 20kW North Donegal KIPPURE (Wicklow) E H 62 59 H/H 160kW/500kW East MAGHERA (Clare) E H 66 68 V/H 200kW/500kW Mid-West MT. LEINSTER(Carlow) F I 26 23 V/H 230kW/500kW South-East Site 796m asl, mast 122m agl MULLAGHANISH(Cork) D G 27 31 V/H 220kW/500kW South-West SPUR HILL (Cork) 53 57 60 63 H 10kW Cork city/Lee valley THREE ROCK (Dublin) 29 33 35 55 H 25kW Dublin TRUSKMORE(Sligo) I G 60 63 H/H 280kW/500kW North-West |
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22nd Jun 2005, 4:37 pm | #5 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
People started watching TV in the Republic before RTE started. All over Dublin people had *huge* band I arrays pointing at Holme Moss. When RTE started they planned to be a 625 line service only, but 405 line transmissions were started in the East because of the large installed base of UK spec tellies.
Ireland is a sparsely populated country apart from Dublin, and it makes sense to use big VHF transmitters for terrestrial TV. AFAIK Britain is the only European country to have a UHF-only TV system. Best regards, Paul |
22nd Jun 2005, 4:43 pm | #6 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Thanks for such an exhaustive reply. Sorry, I should have been clearer. '405' refers to the period (pre 1984 in the UK) when the UK's original television system which used a 405-line picture (dating from 1936 originally) remained in use. This broadcast on Band I (BBC) and Band III (mainly ITA).
In the UK the channels which occupied Band I were numbered 1 to 5. There was also a Band I transmitter at Divis in Northern Ireland. If 405-line television was indeed also transmitted in (southern) Ireland, it's unlikely your present day VHF channel allocations were used, since the old 405-line signal occupied less bandwidth than the later 625-line signal. Steve |
22nd Jun 2005, 4:57 pm | #7 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
RTE transmitted 405 line signals from Mt Kippure near Dublin. Also other sites.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/rlogue/405.htm |
22nd Jun 2005, 4:59 pm | #8 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Kippure and Mt Leinster Band 3 channels are easily receivable and watchable in the English west midlands when there is tropo lift. As the only difference between UK and Eire colour TV standards is the use of VHF, TVs sold on the UK domestic market which have VHF as well as UHF are all thats needed plus a suitable aerial. To a much lesser extent other Irish Band 3 transmitters and UHF channels can be received when there is a lift but not really up to watchable quality for any length of time.
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22nd Jun 2005, 5:33 pm | #9 | ||
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Quote:
Quoting from the site: >And so it came to pass that an "Irish Solution to an Irish Problem" was adopted. Telefis Eireann would broadcast in 625 lines VHF across the country, however in the North and East of Ireland where BBC and ITV were available Telefis Eireann would also be available on 405 lines for those viewers who already had a 405 line set. So presumably Telefis Eireann must have been using standards converters from quite early on ? But later... >according to more than one former RTE engineering source the converter blew up and afterwards the 405 line service was provided by a 405 line camera pointing at a monitor! Quote:
Steve |
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22nd Jun 2005, 11:02 pm | #10 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Thanks chaps for such an interesting and detailed set of comments.
In my ignorance I have often wondered how much wider the VHF bandwidth of a 625 colour signal is versus that of a 405 monochrome - would I be right in assuming that using say channels 1-12 (Bands 1 and 3) one might only be able to fit in three or four 625 colour channels??...or am I really off-beam? Trevor. |
23rd Jun 2005, 7:33 am | #11 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
405 used a 5MHz channel. 625 system I uses 8MHz channels. So about 8 system I channels possible spread over bands 1 and 3.
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23rd Jun 2005, 10:35 am | #12 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Thanks once again for your technical expertise Jeffrey.
Trevor. |
23rd Jun 2005, 11:27 am | #13 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
625 system I uses 8MHz channels
Yes, on band IV and V but on band I and III it takes 7MHz (CCIR). Darius |
23rd Jun 2005, 12:01 pm | #14 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Darius, are you sure about that for System I? A 7MHz channel is OK for system B/G where the sound carrier is 5.5MHz from vision but system I has 6MHz sound spacing and 1.25MHz vestigial sideband.
Ireland uses system I on VHF with 8MHz channels: http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/7225/tvch.html (See near bottom of page for VHF channels) |
23rd Jun 2005, 2:44 pm | #15 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Oh Jeffrey you are right!
They don't use the CCIR Frequencys on VHF. We have 8 channels in band III here. Hm they can not use this bandwith because of the color at 4,4MHz. Kind regards Darius |
23rd Jun 2005, 4:39 pm | #16 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Ireland seems to be going there own way. It was only a few years ago that they closed their high powered Band 1 transmitter at Maghera down to be replaced by a Band 3 transmitter instead of the more usual UHF channel. As RTE do not seem to be in any hurry to switch to digital tv or radio it looks like their analogue tv and radio networks are going to be around for a few years. Could be our only source of off air analogue signals after 2008
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23rd Jun 2005, 6:34 pm | #17 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
It has to be said that the reception that you can get from band 3 is excellant. What annoys me though is I pay a TV liscense like in the UK but RTE is making no efforts what so ever to go digital (other than through BskyB). I am wathching my choice of games at wibledon (excuse spelling) on BBC digital and in my view that is an excellant service.
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24th Jun 2005, 7:09 pm | #18 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
I wouldnt worry about going digital--why bother? We will see the analogue signals continuing for another 6-7 years yet, at least............................buy an integrated set then..................................they have tried it in a little Welsh village, yes...........................................diff erent story about London, or Manchester, or Cheltenham etc..............................ianj
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24th Jun 2005, 9:24 pm | #19 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
Yesterday I picked up a strange signal on 94.00Mhz. I thought it was Welsh but after a bit of detective work I found it was Irelands Radio na G Irish language station from the Mt Leinster transmitter. The signal was audible for many hours just using a portable radio with it's telescopic rod aerial.
It's obviously down to the weather conditions but it does prove that VHF signals from the higher powered transmitters can reach more inland parts of the UK.
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24th Jun 2005, 11:38 pm | #20 |
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Re: Band 3 in Ireland
It may be of interest in these times of turbulent weather conditions for anyone equipped with a Band 3 tv tuner and a suitable aerial to direct their aerial towards the Irish Republic, Band 3 transmissions have been received in this area, not by me but by a reliable source.
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