UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 5th Aug 2019, 2:14 pm   #1
Richard_FM
Octode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,999
Default First Television to use ICs

I was wondering what was the first television to use an integrated circuit?

In 1970s solid state sets using transistors were becoming more standard, & by 1980 even the basic B&W portables often had at least 1 microchip in.
__________________
Hello IT: Have you Tried Turning It Off & On Again?
Richard_FM is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 2:27 pm   #2
GreasedMonkey
Pentode
 
GreasedMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Worcester, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 183
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

I have a GEC junior fineline which I think dates to 1973.

This uses 2 ICs for the sound stages, one for demodulator and one for the amplifier.
GreasedMonkey is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 2:38 pm   #3
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 9,426
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Pye 169 chassis used an IC for the sound IF and det, and one for video det circa 1969
RBM A823 chassis used an IC for Sound IF/Det and an IC for colour decoding circa 1969.
There will be others but those are the ones that came to my mind.
I think RCA produced an IC for sound IF/det in the late 60’s but not sure which year.

RCA March 1966, page 27.
https://americanradiohistory.com/Arc...cs-1966-06.pdf
__________________
Frank

Last edited by Nuvistor; 5th Aug 2019 at 2:44 pm.
Nuvistor is online now  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 2:44 pm   #4
terrykc
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: North Hykeham, Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 515
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

An IC didn't have the same appeal to the customer as a transistor, so nobody copied Pye's highly publicised first Transistorized TV advertising campaign.

It contained one transistor, used as sync separator, if my memory serves me correctly!
terrykc is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 3:02 pm   #5
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

The Plessey SL901 integrated circuit was first used in the hybrid colour TVs made in 1968 by Rank-Bush-Murphy.
Didn't the Baird 710 series employ an IC in the sound circuit?
Certainly by 1969 ICs were beginning to appear in both mono and colour TV sets. Introduced a few years earlier for use in radio receivers was the Mullard TAD100.

DFWB.
FERNSEH is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 3:07 pm   #6
Maarten
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Haarlem, Netherlands
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

I would say around 1969 on the continent. Philips used the TBA240 sync circuit (then known by its development number N161OM) in their F6 chassis. Loewe used I think a TAA450 sound IF, also in a hybrid b/w chassis.

Also, a TAA550 shunt regulator would count as an IC as well, but I don't think that was introduced much earlier.
Maarten is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 3:07 pm   #7
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

In 1973, Plessey Semiconductors at Swindon were manufacturing substantial quantities of custom "Jungle chips" for use in televisions for a French company, but I don't know which one, what the chips did, or when their manufacture had started. Plessey were simply acting as a foundry and the customer did all the design and testing themselves. I was told this on a visit to Swindon in connection with a set of custom ICs that we were designing for our own project. Those were the days when your design tools were a 6H pencil, some large sheets of mm graph paper, an eraser shield, a plastic rubber, and a collection of Eagle "Verithin" coloured pencils of specified colours to represent the various mask layers.
emeritus is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 5:54 pm   #8
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

There's a comment I remember in "The Setmakers" about an early British colour-TV which was originally intended to use an early custom IC produced specially for the job by a UK manufacturer as the colour-decoder but - for reasons undiscussed - this IC was withdrawn from availability shortly before the TV in question was marketed - leading to its 'emergency replacement' by an additional PCB with something like 25 components, fitted to overhang the space where the original IC was intended to go.

If I can remember where my copy of "The Setmakers" is, I'll see if I can find the reference for you.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 6:11 pm   #9
G8vsjDave
Pentode
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 226
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

When I was at RBM's Chiswick factory back in 1968, we loaned Mullard a A640 television that was returned with a plastic bag of removed components. A small board had been added to the IF strip that contained a handful of components and a black thing with 14 legs. If memory serves, I believe this was a demonstration of a TBA120 or maybe a pre-production version. I remember we were all impressed with the amount of components this 'thing' replaced.
Dave
G8vsjDave is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 6:15 pm   #10
Nuvistor
Dekatron
 
Nuvistor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 9,426
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
There's a comment I remember in "The Setmakers" about an early British colour-TV which was originally intended to use an early custom IC produced specially for the job by a UK manufacturer as the colour-decoder but - for reasons undiscussed - this IC was withdrawn from availability shortly before the TV in question was marketed - leading to its 'emergency replacement' by an additional PCB with something like 25 components, fitted to overhang the space where the original IC was intended to go.

If I can remember where my copy of "The Setmakers" is, I'll see if I can find the reference for you.
The Pye 169 chassis had an early variant in the 569 chassis, this was B/W, the video IC was replaced by a small PCB in place of the I.C that was late in arrival.
__________________
Frank
Nuvistor is online now  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 6:58 pm   #11
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Here's what "The Setmakers" has:

Page 379, in the context of Rank-Bush-Murphy:

"Concurrently, RBM in collaboration with Plessey were pioneering the next stage in the evolution of the television receiver - the development of analog integrated circuits (ICs) each carrying out some functuion hitherto requiring a substantial number of transistors and other discrete components. In June 1968 they announced the first IC in the world to carry out the complex functions of decoding a PAL colour signal. It would be used in that autumn's new models and would replace 65 discrete components occupying an area of 36 square inches".

Then on page 385: "As originally designed the colour decoder in the Philips G8 employed two Mullard ICs and its designers were forcibly reminded of the space such components saved when - six weeks before the set was due to go into production, high strategy within the Philips organisation obliged Mullard to withdraw one of them, rendering the other unusable. The circuit hurriedly designed to replace them contained 98 discrete components. There was no way in which it could be fitted into the 3" by 3" space that the two ICs had occupied, so it was built on a separate board that sat above the original panel and overhung other components".
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 7:37 pm   #12
Ted Kendall
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kington, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 3,657
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

There used to be an exhibit in the Science Museum of just this set, including the daughter board, with a summary of the circumstances.
Ted Kendall is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 8:04 pm   #13
Sideband
Dekatron
 
Sideband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,548
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Then on page 385: "As originally designed the colour decoder in the Philips G8 employed two Mullard ICs and its designers were forcibly reminded of the space such components saved when - six weeks before the set was due to go into production, high strategy within the Philips organisation obliged Mullard to withdraw one of them, rendering the other unusable. The circuit hurriedly designed to replace them contained 98 discrete components. There was no way in which it could be fitted into the 3" by 3" space that the two ICs had occupied, so it was built on a separate board that sat above the original panel and overhung other components".
When I worked at Philips I saw one of those early G8's. I just picked the set from the repair rack and wheeled it over to my bench on a trolley thinking it was a nice easy 'no colour' fault, took the back off and did a double-take!

There on the decoder board was this piggy-back board with loads of components on it! At first I thought it was one of several sets modified for the BBC to have a direct video input but there was no isolation transformer nor were there any BNC sockets fitted. I called one of the veteran TV engineers over and he was just as mystified but did point out that the usual IC's fitted were not present and this board appeared to be replacing them. He thought it might have been an early pre-production sample. The problem was answered by one of the Technical Advice guys who I called. He came and had a look, gave a grunt, disappeared and re-appeared about 5 minutes later with a circuit showing this hastily prepared board.

It wasn't expected to be serviced and the set was duly fitted with a service replacement decoder containing the standard I.C's. The Tech Advice guy took the old panel with discrete components away for 'investigation'. He had a G8 at home and I suspect he did some faultfinding of his own since the panel would only have been scrapped anyway. Who knows....it may still exist somewhere!
__________________
There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....
Sideband is offline  
Old 5th Aug 2019, 11:12 pm   #14
Richard_FM
Octode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,999
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Thanks for the feedback, ICs were started to be used a few years before I assumed they would be.

I presume a few sets managed to have valves, transistors & microchips.
__________________
Hello IT: Have you Tried Turning It Off & On Again?
Richard_FM is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2019, 9:51 am   #15
Jonster
Heptode
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 671
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

The later Decca 'Bradford' 30 series colour hybrids had a colour decoder with ICs and transistors, while retaining valved timebases. The earlier 10 series had an all transistor decoder if I remember. The ITT CVC5/7/9 were similar.
Jonster is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2019, 10:07 am   #16
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 7,444
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

information from the 1970/71 Radio and television servicing book.
Monochrome TV section.
The B & O models 500, 800 and 1400 employ the RCA CA3013 as the 6Mhz intercarrier sound amplifier and demodulator. These receivers have varicap tuning.
The Decca MS2000/2400 models have a Motorola MC1351P as the 6Mhz amplifier and demodulator.
Pye 169 chassis has two ICs. Described as modules the integrated circuits are the TAA570 and the TAA700. The TAA570 is the 6Mhz amplifier and demodulator. The TAA700 functions as video driver, sync separator, flywheel sync discriminator and AGC amplifier.

1968 models: the Bush colour TV with the SL901 IC is the model CTV174.
The IC employed in the Baird 710 series colour TV is the RCA CA3034V1 and functions as the tuner AFC amplifier and discriminator.

DFWB.
FERNSEH is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2019, 11:47 pm   #17
Synchrodyne
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Papamoa Beach, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
Posts: 2,943
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

On a worldwide basis, I think that the first use of an IC in a domestic TV receiver would have been by RCA, early in 1966. That was recorded in “Electronics” 1966 March 21, https://americanradiohistory.com/Ele...aster_Page.htm.

RCA had earlier embarked upon a programme, headed up by their prominent engineer Jack Avins, to develop a range of TV ICs, and the CA3013/3014 FM IF and demodulator subsystem was the first fruit. The programme was described in RCA Engineer 1966 April-May, https://www.americanradiohistory.com..._Issue_Key.htm.

Next up I understand was the CA3034 TV AFT subsystem. The CA3013/2014, with its demodulator-less companion, the CA3011/3013 was also offered for FM receiver use, with the existing CA3005, previously issued for military applications, roped in as well. (The later CA3028 was a lower cost version of the CA3005.) See Electronics 1966 August 08.

The RCA FM subsystem ICs developed quickly; the landmark CA3089 of later 1971 was the fourth generation, and the first from RCA to use the by then well-established balanced quadrature demodulation. (It would appear that prior to that, Jack Avins had preferred his own designs of FM demodulators; the CA3089 was more or less his swansong.)

Re the juxtaposition of valves and ICs in TV receivers, this was envisaged by the IC designers. The second-generation RCA FM subsystem range included the CA3041, which included an IF amplifier, a demodulator and an AF driver intended to driver a 6AQ5 beam tetrode or similar output valve. (The CA3042 was configured to drive an NPN output transistor or a high-gain pentode, and the CA3043, with AF preamplifier, was for use in FM receivers.)


Cheers,
Synchrodyne is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2019, 12:34 am   #18
toshiba tony
Heptode
 
toshiba tony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Accrington, Lancashire, UK.
Posts: 977
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

I get confused these days but strictly speaking varicap tuners used an ic for the 33v line. I know a zener was often used but on the early continental sets an IC was used. Even on the circuit diagrams it was referred to as an IC unless it was a zener in disguise.
toshiba tony is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2019, 12:50 am   #19
PortugalTV
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Serzedo, Portugal.
Posts: 83
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_FM View Post
I presume a few sets managed to have valves, transistors & microchips.
I have a black and white Philips set that has all the three flavours, unfortunately the cabinet fell apart and i parted it for the flyback to make other set work again

if memory doesn't fail me it was a Philips x20T , i think i still have the chassis here somewhere. from what i remember it uses 5 tubes, eht rectifier horizontal output damper vertical output and i think audio output. the IF section has an IC and it uses transistors for the rest of the circuitry

Last edited by PortugalTV; 7th Aug 2019 at 12:55 am.
PortugalTV is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2019, 9:10 am   #20
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: First Television to use ICs

Yes I remember the 2-terminal 33V ICs used to regulate the varicap tuning-supply.

TAA550 if my memory serves correctly - in a TO-18 can looking like a BC108 but with one leg missing.

(I once used three in series to stabilise the HT to the local-oscillator in a shortwave battery-valve radio).

It sort-of puzzles me that the first TV ICs were for RF/IF signal-processing - somehow I'd always thought the audio stages would have been the initial target, since you only needed transistors with a few tens of KHz frequency-response rather than 5.5 or 6MHz like in the IF strip.

There again, when ICs did make it into the audio-stages of TVs they were not always spectacularly successful - anyone remember the 1970s Texas Instruments SN76001-style "Hedgehog" chips that had a nasty tendency to burn out if you listened to Top of the Pops too loud?
G6Tanuki is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:01 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.