Elizabethan P20G Record Player - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Sparks · 24th Oct 2020, 11:44 am

I'm now the proud owner of one of these old beasts. A couple of questions if I may:

- The amplifier makes a fairly loud humming noise. Is this normal ? It isn't loud enough to
mask the sound of the record but it is noticeable.

- Can anyone please recommend a suitable stylus should I need a replacement ? I
appreciate we're dealing with rather old technology here. The player actually has two
styli, one for regular vinyl and another for 78s. I would only need the former.

Thankyou.

Audio1950 · 24th Oct 2020, 1:14 pm

With regards to the stylus, it depends on whether the player still has the original cartridge, or if it has been replaced at some time. Can you look and see if there are any markings or numbers on the cartridge, or post a close-up picture of it?

Barry

AC/HL · 24th Oct 2020, 2:43 pm

Circuit here: https://www.service-data.com/section.php/2229/1/pop20g
Does the hum vary with the volume control?

Sparks · 24th Oct 2020, 4:40 pm

The hum scarcely varies at all whatever the volume. The cartridge says 'acos SJ2' on it. I noticed the transformer sitting in the bottom of the case when I took these pictures. I don't know if it should be there or if it's original.

Edward Huggins · 24th Oct 2020, 5:30 pm

That's a very old Acos MONO cartridge and should not be used. It will permanently damage Stereo pressings. I think you might still be able to buy a replacment stylus for this, but it should only be used for playing Mono LPs (most collections do not contain many of these) and Mono 45s.

Sparks · 24th Oct 2020, 7:17 pm

Thanks Edward. At least I now know it's possibly the original cartridge, if not definitely!

astro63 · 25th Oct 2020, 8:24 am

cartridge is a Acos GP67 crystal type, amazing its still working, the stylus will be Acos GP65/67 easy available
Is the Transformer secure/fixed down not loose or moving about?

Sparks · 25th Oct 2020, 12:30 pm

Thanks astro. I'll have another look later.

Sparks · 25th Oct 2020, 2:35 pm

The transformer appears to be fixed by a single screw!

Ideally I'd like to replace the cartridge/stylus with one suitable for stereo records, if this is possible and affordable.

Edward Huggins · 25th Oct 2020, 5:37 pm

Yes, that old cartridge is probably very weak now. What types of records do you want to play - 33, 45 and 78s - or 33 and 45s only?

Techman · 25th Oct 2020, 7:07 pm

I think your record player has a two stage amplifier using something like an ECL86 valve, so you could use one of the cheap, but very good Chinese cartridges. If the old non-stereo compatible cartridge is still working, then it's worth keeping it somewhere safe and dry as an original and still working part. More importantly, being a two stage amplifier, there's likely to be a critical coupling capacitor which may be leaking by now and will cause irreparable damage to the player if not checked and, if needed, replaced, so worth checking this out before giving the player too much use. This leaking capacitor could be causing the valve to pass too much current, thus loading the HT supply and causing the hum.

Sparks · 25th Oct 2020, 7:24 pm

Thankyou Edward and Techman. I will only be playing 33s and 45s so I don't need anything that does 78s. Is there any particular Chinese cartridge either of you would recommend ? Whatever else happens, I'll probably take it to a vintage audio expert for a proper service.

Edward Huggins · 25th Oct 2020, 10:19 pm

O.K. I can see that your autochanger is a Garrard "Autoslim". So search online for a "Chinese Stereo Ceramic Cartridge with 1/2" fixing centres Bracket/Mount". There are a number of sites selling these. They will easily fit into the Garrard tone arm. Price about £10-00 only.

teetoon · 25th Oct 2020, 11:33 pm

Hi. A couple of points if I may ?
I believe this player is solid state, not valves.
The transformer which appears to be in the bottom of the cabinet is not original.

If you get it appart and take some pictures it might help to work out why that has been retro fitted.

Just a guess but it could be that the original transformer failed and someone has bodged in a bigger one.

It doesn't look safe as I'm sure you could touch the live terminals with your hand down behind the turntable.

Also, I don't think the brown and blue coloured mains wires are original, this being a 60's player.

To sum up. I'm sure the proper transformer would have been in the amp compartment so you need to find out why that other one has been fitted.

Hope this makes sense.

I remember these players from years gone by. They were available as stereo or "duophonic" which I beleive is the model you have.
There was also a model with a "slumber" switch that could be selected so that the turntable switched off the amp at the end of the playing cycle.

David.

Techman · 26th Oct 2020, 12:03 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by teetoon

I believe this player is solid state, not valves.
The transformer which appears to be in the bottom of the cabinet is not original.

If you get it appart and take some pictures it might help to work out why that has been retro fitted.

An interesting observation and you may be right.

I would have put that old Acos cartridge firmly in the valve era myself - if it's the original, that is.

I agree that we need more information from the OP and to see photos of all the electronics if possible.

teetoon · 26th Oct 2020, 1:32 am

Hi Techman. You were right, from a search on this forum this is an early model with an ECL86 apparently.
The cartridge should have told me as you say.
The players I remember would be the 40T models. I assume the T meant transistor and would have been later.

David.

Sparks · 26th Oct 2020, 6:59 am

Thankyou for your continuing input folks. I agree that the transformer isn't likely to be the original given its rudimentary positioning and latter-day wiring. I have another modern turntable so it's not as if I need the Elizabethan up and running any time soon. As I said upthread, I think a professional overhaul is in order.

Station X · 26th Oct 2020, 9:02 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparks

The hum scarcely varies at all whatever the volume. The cartridge says 'acos SJ2' on it. I noticed the transformer sitting in the bottom of the case when I took these pictures. I don't know if it should be there or if it's original.

The transit screws, one shown at centre bottom in the first picture, should be screwed in so that the deck floats.

nicam49 · 26th Oct 2020, 10:19 am

In that 1st pic, it looks like the incoming mains cable is going directly to the transformer.,!

24th Oct 2020, 11:44 am	#1
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Elizabethan P20G Record Player I'm now the proud owner of one of these old beasts. A couple of questions if I may: - The amplifier makes a fairly loud humming noise. Is this normal ? It isn't loud enough to mask the sound of the record but it is noticeable. - Can anyone please recommend a suitable stylus should I need a replacement ? I appreciate we're dealing with rather old technology here. The player actually has two styli, one for regular vinyl and another for 78s. I would only need the former. Thankyou.

24th Oct 2020, 1:14 pm	#2
Audio1950 Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Whittlesey, near Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 3,761	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player With regards to the stylus, it depends on whether the player still has the original cartridge, or if it has been replaced at some time. Can you look and see if there are any markings or numbers on the cartridge, or post a close-up picture of it? Barry

24th Oct 2020, 2:43 pm	#3
AC/HL Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 9,642	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Circuit here: https://www.service-data.com/section.php/2229/1/pop20g Does the hum vary with the volume control?

24th Oct 2020, 4:40 pm	#4
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player The hum scarcely varies at all whatever the volume. The cartridge says 'acos SJ2' on it. I noticed the transformer sitting in the bottom of the case when I took these pictures. I don't know if it should be there or if it's original. Attached Thumbnails

24th Oct 2020, 5:30 pm	#5
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player That's a very old Acos MONO cartridge and should not be used. It will permanently damage Stereo pressings. I think you might still be able to buy a replacment stylus for this, but it should only be used for playing Mono LPs (most collections do not contain many of these) and Mono 45s. __________________ Edward.

24th Oct 2020, 7:17 pm	#6
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Thanks Edward. At least I now know it's possibly the original cartridge, if not definitely!

25th Oct 2020, 8:24 am	#7
astro63 Pentode Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Norfolk, UK. Posts: 248	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player cartridge is a Acos GP67 crystal type, amazing its still working, the stylus will be Acos GP65/67 easy available Is the Transformer secure/fixed down not loose or moving about?

25th Oct 2020, 12:30 pm	#8
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Thanks astro. I'll have another look later.

25th Oct 2020, 2:35 pm	#9
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player The transformer appears to be fixed by a single screw! Ideally I'd like to replace the cartridge/stylus with one suitable for stereo records, if this is possible and affordable.

25th Oct 2020, 5:37 pm	#10
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Yes, that old cartridge is probably very weak now. What types of records do you want to play - 33, 45 and 78s - or 33 and 45s only? __________________ Edward.

25th Oct 2020, 7:07 pm	#11
Techman Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lincolnshire, UK. Posts: 5,000	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player I think your record player has a two stage amplifier using something like an ECL86 valve, so you could use one of the cheap, but very good Chinese cartridges. If the old non-stereo compatible cartridge is still working, then it's worth keeping it somewhere safe and dry as an original and still working part. More importantly, being a two stage amplifier, there's likely to be a critical coupling capacitor which may be leaking by now and will cause irreparable damage to the player if not checked and, if needed, replaced, so worth checking this out before giving the player too much use. This leaking capacitor could be causing the valve to pass too much current, thus loading the HT supply and causing the hum.

25th Oct 2020, 7:24 pm	#12
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Thankyou Edward and Techman. I will only be playing 33s and 45s so I don't need anything that does 78s. Is there any particular Chinese cartridge either of you would recommend ? Whatever else happens, I'll probably take it to a vintage audio expert for a proper service.

25th Oct 2020, 10:19 pm	#13
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player O.K. I can see that your autochanger is a Garrard "Autoslim". So search online for a "Chinese Stereo Ceramic Cartridge with 1/2" fixing centres Bracket/Mount". There are a number of sites selling these. They will easily fit into the Garrard tone arm. Price about £10-00 only. __________________ Edward.

25th Oct 2020, 11:33 pm	#14
teetoon Heptode Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Barnstaple, N.Devon, UK. Posts: 557	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Hi. A couple of points if I may ? I believe this player is solid state, not valves. The transformer which appears to be in the bottom of the cabinet is not original. If you get it appart and take some pictures it might help to work out why that has been retro fitted. Just a guess but it could be that the original transformer failed and someone has bodged in a bigger one. It doesn't look safe as I'm sure you could touch the live terminals with your hand down behind the turntable. Also, I don't think the brown and blue coloured mains wires are original, this being a 60's player. To sum up. I'm sure the proper transformer would have been in the amp compartment so you need to find out why that other one has been fitted. Hope this makes sense. I remember these players from years gone by. They were available as stereo or "duophonic" which I beleive is the model you have. There was also a model with a "slumber" switch that could be selected so that the turntable switched off the amp at the end of the playing cycle. David. Last edited by teetoon; 25th Oct 2020 at 11:39 pm.

26th Oct 2020, 1:32 am	#16
teetoon Heptode Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Barnstaple, N.Devon, UK. Posts: 557	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Hi Techman. You were right, from a search on this forum this is an early model with an ECL86 apparently. The cartridge should have told me as you say. The players I remember would be the 40T models. I assume the T meant transistor and would have been later. David.

26th Oct 2020, 6:59 am	#17
Sparks Heptode Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 597	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player Thankyou for your continuing input folks. I agree that the transformer isn't likely to be the original given its rudimentary positioning and latter-day wiring. I have another modern turntable so it's not as if I need the Elizabethan up and running any time soon. As I said upthread, I think a professional overhaul is in order.

26th Oct 2020, 10:19 am	#19
nicam49 Hexode Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Wigston, Leicester, UK. Posts: 350	Re: Elizabethan P20G Record Player In that 1st pic, it looks like the incoming mains cable is going directly to the transformer.,!