NEAL 102 mk11v - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Whaam68 · 21st May 2022, 2:44 pm

This was a bit of an impulse purchase when I stumbled across it having read a bit about NEAL and their links to ferrograph in the past. It was sold as fully working and amazingly it is and sounds really nice as contrary to what’s often written on many forums I’ve found many of these early decks to do. It arrived early and coincidentally I was having a move about of the hifi so I took a risk and put it straight on. The only thing that is unresponsive is the output level adjust which doesn’t seem to vary through either the din out or the line out mmmm….fortunately the output level sounds abought right. The a/c motor puts out quite a loud throb when music isn’t playing so I’ll take a look at that and the motor run cap but I’m guessing these were never that quiet. This unit is an AV model I think to synch an extra track to add speech over music or whatever….I’m not planning to mess with that. If anyone has any insights about the deck or the motor noise or output level control that would always be appreciated. Mike.

paulsherwin · 21st May 2022, 3:17 pm

NEAL are probably best known for making all the UK police interview recorders.

The 102 does seem to have a noisy motor, though I've never encountered one in the flesh.

Is there a headphone socket? Possibly the output level control only affects that.

Whaam68 · 21st May 2022, 3:57 pm

Thanks Paul
There is a headphone socket but I just found the operating manual at the UK hifi history society and on page 7 that suggests the variable output should work for output via an amp. http://ukhhsoc.torrens.org/makers/NE...al/Page07.jpeg
I’ll have to take a look and see what’s going on. Someone could have bypassed it.
Although it’s a 2 header the deck also has a calibration tone so I’ll need to figure that out also.

wd40addict · 21st May 2022, 4:01 pm

The deck was bought in from 3M Wollensak so worth doing a search for motor problems with that.

paulsherwin · 21st May 2022, 4:35 pm

The output control behaviour could be something to do with the AV features.

Whaam68 · 21st May 2022, 5:57 pm

Thanks both I will dig in when I get some time.

Chris R · 24th May 2022, 4:31 pm

The name NEAL and "Police recordings" caught my eye.
Back in the dim and distant past, I worked for the Scottish Office / Scottish Executive. When the idea of recording police interviews was hatched, trials to test the idea started.

Initially a Japanese briefcase style of twin deck cassette recorder was used (I don't recall the model). Operated by two sets of piano keys, it wasn't ideal for easy operation. However, trials went ahead in Dundee and Aberdeen police HQ's
Time injection was required on the second channel and an ingenious solution was found by one of the lads. A speaking alarm clock was used and this was repeatedly keyed. It worked well, although it had an American accent!

Moving on, a more sophisticated system was developed. This involved the use of three NEAL Ferrograph 302 transcription cassette recorders in a 19" rack They were ideal, as they were logic controlled and could be operated using a single control unit. Some of the controls were blanked off to avoid fiddling fingers. Performance of these machines was far above what was needed, but results were excellent (three Papst motors and a frequency response up to 15000 Hz). They were rather fussy about using cheap cassettes! A PZM microphone was used. These were supposed to be used flat on the table, but picked up too much noise there. We fixed them to the wall with double sided tape and they can still be seen there in TV programmes.

The 302 was too expensive to use in real life, so a simplified version was developed by Lee James Electronics (the Neal 622c). Two decks and both capstans driven by a single motor. Still an excellent machine.

Chris R

21st May 2022, 2:44 pm	#1
Whaam68 Hexode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 456	NEAL 102 mk11v This was a bit of an impulse purchase when I stumbled across it having read a bit about NEAL and their links to ferrograph in the past. It was sold as fully working and amazingly it is and sounds really nice as contrary to what’s often written on many forums I’ve found many of these early decks to do. It arrived early and coincidentally I was having a move about of the hifi so I took a risk and put it straight on. The only thing that is unresponsive is the output level adjust which doesn’t seem to vary through either the din out or the line out mmmm….fortunately the output level sounds abought right. The a/c motor puts out quite a loud throb when music isn’t playing so I’ll take a look at that and the motor run cap but I’m guessing these were never that quiet. This unit is an AV model I think to synch an extra track to add speech over music or whatever….I’m not planning to mess with that. If anyone has any insights about the deck or the motor noise or output level control that would always be appreciated. Mike. Attached Thumbnails

21st May 2022, 3:17 pm	#2
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,957	Re: NEAL 102 mk11v NEAL are probably best known for making all the UK police interview recorders. The 102 does seem to have a noisy motor, though I've never encountered one in the flesh. Is there a headphone socket? Possibly the output level control only affects that.

21st May 2022, 3:57 pm	#3
Whaam68 Hexode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 456	Re: NEAL 102 mk11v Thanks Paul There is a headphone socket but I just found the operating manual at the UK hifi history society and on page 7 that suggests the variable output should work for output via an amp. http://ukhhsoc.torrens.org/makers/NE...al/Page07.jpeg I’ll have to take a look and see what’s going on. Someone could have bypassed it. Although it’s a 2 header the deck also has a calibration tone so I’ll need to figure that out also.

21st May 2022, 4:01 pm	#4
wd40addict Octode Join Date: May 2009 Location: Stevenage, Herts. UK. Posts: 1,518	Re: NEAL 102 mk11v The deck was bought in from 3M Wollensak so worth doing a search for motor problems with that.

21st May 2022, 4:35 pm	#5
paulsherwin Moderator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 27,957	Re: NEAL 102 mk11v The output control behaviour could be something to do with the AV features.

21st May 2022, 5:57 pm	#6
Whaam68 Hexode Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Luton, Bedfordshire, UK. Posts: 456	Re: NEAL 102 mk11v Thanks both I will dig in when I get some time.

24th May 2022, 4:31 pm	#7
Chris R Pentode Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Laurencekirk, Kincardineshire, Scotland, UK. Posts: 183	Re: NEAL 102 mk11v The name NEAL and "Police recordings" caught my eye. Back in the dim and distant past, I worked for the Scottish Office / Scottish Executive. When the idea of recording police interviews was hatched, trials to test the idea started. Initially a Japanese briefcase style of twin deck cassette recorder was used (I don't recall the model). Operated by two sets of piano keys, it wasn't ideal for easy operation. However, trials went ahead in Dundee and Aberdeen police HQ's Time injection was required on the second channel and an ingenious solution was found by one of the lads. A speaking alarm clock was used and this was repeatedly keyed. It worked well, although it had an American accent! Moving on, a more sophisticated system was developed. This involved the use of three NEAL Ferrograph 302 transcription cassette recorders in a 19" rack They were ideal, as they were logic controlled and could be operated using a single control unit. Some of the controls were blanked off to avoid fiddling fingers. Performance of these machines was far above what was needed, but results were excellent (three Papst motors and a frequency response up to 15000 Hz). They were rather fussy about using cheap cassettes! A PZM microphone was used. These were supposed to be used flat on the table, but picked up too much noise there. We fixed them to the wall with double sided tape and they can still be seen there in TV programmes. The 302 was too expensive to use in real life, so a simplified version was developed by Lee James Electronics (the Neal 622c). Two decks and both capstans driven by a single motor. Still an excellent machine. Chris R