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Old 18th Jul 2022, 6:38 pm   #81
Lucien Nunes
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

When taking readings it's helpful to state the actual meter reading with units and if relevant, the meter range in use. Descriptions in words can be misleading unless very correctly phrased. For example:

Quote:
the reading I am getting from that yellow Red Red Orange resistor is Zero, nothing and no Continuity
'reading.... is zero' means approximately the opposite of 'no continuity', so it's impossible to make any inference as to what you measured.

Likewise:

'Getting nothing' I would interpret too high to measure e.g. >20Megohms
'Getting no resistance' I would interpret as too low to measure, e.g. 0.1 ohms, i.e. the opposite.

If you state that 'the meter reads 0.00 ohms on the 200 ohm range' we know both what the meter is configured to detect and what it has actually detected.
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 6:48 pm   #82
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigears View Post
It was my intention to replace it with an modern cap seems I have been had
Maybe it was sold as a NOS (New Old Stock) item/component.

To my mind NOS can be a very misleading title, it infers the part is new (old stock generally referring to the fact that it is unused) but in many/most cases the part is far from new and often will be vintage (old/very old).

I prefer to call them UOS (Unused Old Stock) but of course "old" is not a good selling point.

Depending upon the component type an NOS part may be fine but with capacitors in particular they can and often will degrade with age (even if never used since being manufactured) so are risky buying them particularly if one cannot test them properly/reform (if electrolytic) etc.

David
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 8:06 pm   #83
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I've heard NOS expanded as Now Open Circuit!

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Old 18th Jul 2022, 8:59 pm   #84
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

This is what I get red lead to chassis
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 9:04 pm   #85
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Just had a look at the manual for the meter. That's an over range indication. What happens if you switch up the ranges?

Any difference if you connect the black lead to the transformer frame?
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 9:19 pm   #86
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Was able to get a reading
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 9:26 pm   #87
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

You're measuring in a different place though.

0.276Mohm or 276kohm or 276,000ohms
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 9:32 pm   #88
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I get this
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Old 18th Jul 2022, 9:53 pm   #89
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

9.65kohms or 9650ohms.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 1:48 pm   #90
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigears View Post
Was able to get a reading
Looks like you are measuring across one of the 220k resistors.

The 0.276Mohm (276kOhm) reading is above the 10% (silver band) max tolerance of the 220K resistor, but not a failure as such.

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Old 19th Jul 2022, 1:57 pm   #91
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigears View Post
I get this
Your meter is connected the wrong way round for charging the smoothing capacitors. Try reversing the leads.

On initially connecting the leads the reading should be very low ie short-circuit. It will then rise towards infinity as the smoothing capacitors charge.

The final reading will show whether the capacitor is leaking, or perhaps there's another fault.

This isn't a conclusive test though as the smoothing capacitors need to be checked for electrical leakage at their full working voltage.

You might like to try this test on a good, out of circuit, electrolytic capacitor so you get an idea as to what to expect. The greater the capacitance the better.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 2:05 pm   #92
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigears View Post
I get this
Was the meter black lead connected to the red wire at the big resistor because at Post 80 you said you get nothing/no resistance ?

9.65kOhm is not a short or particularly low resistance but it does sound suspicious if that is your HT to chassis measurement. Repeat the test and also swap the leads over to see what reading you get. If still 9.65k you need to trace where the reading is originating from by disconnecting some of the associated connections until you can locate the source of that reading.

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Old 19th Jul 2022, 2:57 pm   #93
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

Black meter lead to chassis. Then with the read lead test all three positive tags of the multi-section electrolytic in turn:
C13 (reservoir)
C12 (main smoother)
C11 (front end smoother / decoupler)
Wait for the reading to settle. If it's off-scale high (1__) select a higher range. If it's off-scale low (0.00) select a lower range. Choose the range that gives the best resolution to the reading e.g. (22.3) kilohms and (0.02) megohms are both valid readings of the same resistance but the first gives much more information.

Until the valves are hot and begin to conduct, there is no load on the HT rail so if all the capacitors are good, a reading of some hundreds of kilohms would be expected. The coupling capacitors all appear to be ceramic (seems conventional for EAR) and likely to be in good order.

The pic in post #14 suggests R15 is 400R and R14 is 22k, they both appear to be mounted between the relevant tags on the cap. If one section is shorted then the readings at the other tags will reflect these, e.g. if C11 is shorted the reading at C12 would be around 22k and at C11 slightly higher.

Troubleshooting hint: Many components in a circuit like this are tolerant of wide discrepancies in value. With the main exception of R13, you could double or halve all the resistors, i.e. be 100% off-value, and it would still work quite well. Some could be 500% out and it would still play records, although perhaps not well. Therefore don't get hung up on whether that 220k resistor is 200k or 400k until you have music coming out of the speaker. The same is true of the values of many of the capacitors although they don't tend to drift. Capacitor leakage on the other hand does not have so much margin for error; in the critical positions it must be good (i.e. minimal) or the operation of the valves will be upset. Valves, too, can be quite poor (30%) and still work, but must not have short-circuits or other major faults.

Last edited by Lucien Nunes; 19th Jul 2022 at 3:08 pm.
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 5:55 pm   #94
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

no its from the red wire to the chassis , the red wire that comes off the big resistor
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 6:28 pm   #95
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I'm confused.

100th post coming up!
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 6:45 pm   #96
Lucien Nunes
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I think the only clue we currently have about the HT line is the resistance reading of 9.65kΩ to deck with the meter polarity reversed, at the end of the red lead feeding C13. We think that the HT was fed with reverse polarity when the diode was first fitted so C13 is likely to be damaged. A 63-year-old replacement capactor was fitted as C4. Most everything else is unknown.

Replacing C11/12/13 if required, involves relocating R14 and R15. We still have two old caps in cathode bypass positions, one end of the diode is floating in midair and we don't actually know what's wrong with the player (other than likely C13).

I wonder whether this is the point at which it would help Ken to get someone else with repair experience to give some on-the-spot guidance, to gain familiarity and technique with working on valve equipment?
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 9:25 pm   #97
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I couldn't find the right or didn't know what to get to replace that 63-year-old replacement capacitor I fitted at C4 I think Graham may be right 100 post time to call it a day, the tin can would be hard for me to replace, I will try and study the schematics that Lawrence supplied I think that's all I can do, however I thank you all for your kind help, Regards Ken
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Old 19th Jul 2022, 9:48 pm   #98
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I'm sure there are plenty of members here who are still willing to give you advice. Perhaps too many? Which is why I'm going to drop out.

You could always try a post in the Repair and Restoration Services Wanted section to see if anyone close to you is prepared to mentor you.
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 10:26 am   #99
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Thanks Graham
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Old 20th Jul 2022, 7:42 pm   #100
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Default Re: EAR De-Luxe Record Player

I absolutely agree that someone in the OP's area should step forward and pop round for an hour or two to give him a hand and some pointers regarding fault finding and using the meter. I thought this right from near the beginning of this thread, also remembering thinking the same with regard to last years thread on the supposed Black Box that was a homebrew built into a cut in half radio cabinet that never really reached a conclusion. I think a bit of one-to-one help is all this chap needs and it will probably be like the difference between night and day to him.
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