Rockola Jukebox Heater? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

mycjets · 25th Nov 2020, 9:00 pm

Hi,

I have recently moved house and now have my Jukebox in a converted garage. Garage used as I am office/games room during the day. At night it can become quite cold and was thinking of obtaining a small anti condensation heater. Has anyone any experience of this? Was thinking about a small heater about 20-30 Watts fed via separate supply not via Jukebox supply.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

rontech · 25th Nov 2020, 9:03 pm

How about one of those old inspection lamps with a caged 60 w filament bulb? They clamp onto a convenient place as well.

Ed_Dinning · 25th Nov 2020, 9:18 pm

Hi, the control cabinets for outdoor switchgear (metal) in the 60's were typically fitted with a 100W heater (basically a big resistor ) that ran up to about 50C.
You could probably get away with about 1/2 that, say a couple of 15w pygmy bulbs, nice and cheap.

Ed

G6Tanuki · 25th Nov 2020, 10:00 pm

I'd suggest sticking a legacy 40W "GLS" filament-bulb in the bottom of the case.

[in times-past when radio-hams often had a 'shack' that was just an unheated shed, VFO-drift when firing-up a transmitter or receiver - which could then be cycling from zero to 30 centigrade - was a problem - plenty of people fitted low-wattage lightbulbs in the cabinets of their receivers and transmitters to provide a schmierchen of background warmth and so avoid the "I'm following you up the band" drift-issues.

vinrads · 26th Nov 2020, 10:24 am

Definitely needs some form of heating otherwise could end up like this,

ex 2 Base · 26th Nov 2020, 12:05 pm

De- humidifier, I have one on 24/7 in my workshop, a bit of heat but no rust or condensation. When running about 200 watts but it cycles on/ off as and when. Ted

Richardgr · 26th Nov 2020, 4:49 pm

How about a concrete plinth containing one of those electrical underfloor heating kits? Eliminate the cold floor which would be source of condensation, as well as setting the ambient temperature.

Lucien Nunes · 26th Nov 2020, 7:34 pm

Definitely consider a dehumidifier. Every watt of electricity consumed by a dehumidifier comes out as heat, so you lose nothing heat-wise compared to running a heater; but instead of the moisture condensing on the coldest surface, it gets collected.

There are two types. Refrigerant dehumidifers are theoretically maintenance-free (apart from cleaning the air filter) and can operate on as little as 250W, but do not work at low temperatures. Some misbehave at very low temps because their defrost cycle does not work. Desiccant types typically use more juice (300-600W) and give out proportionately more heat, but work at any temperature (although with lower yield at low temps). The desiccant rotor has a finite life, although so far I don't have enough experience with desiccants to know how fast the performance drops off.

Bookman · 26th Nov 2020, 8:11 pm

When it comes to enclosures for electrical equipment one has to consider how it will function within the environment it will operate. Separately, one will need to have knowledge of how the environment will impact, if at all upon the item. Put simply this is referred to ingress protection or IP rating and is of importance for areas of high percentage RH.

In the first instance the enclosure will expand with heat during operation thus allowing the air around it to enter the enclosure and to then condense when the item is switched off. In such circumstances there are specific ACHs (anti condensation heaters) that can be purchased operative from a humidistat to allow some form of control.
The heaters are normally flat steel devices or indeed could be a carbon filament lamp. There is also the potential to use a desiccant which I have noted are now available for use in wardrobes.
The advantage of using an ACH is that warm air will be continually exiting the enclosure during operation and cooling down thus preventing cooler external air being drawn in.
Hope this helps
Joe

G6Tanuki · 26th Nov 2020, 8:15 pm

Yes a dehumidifier is a good idea. I've got an "Ebac Powerdri Professional" here [was around £200 from Screwfix] - living in a house with non-cavity, non-dampcourse walls and stone floors it's essential in the winter months to stop mould etc.

You say you're using a converted garage: having seen the construction of some integral-with-the-house garages I'd suggest you check and improve the insulation too: the standard 'insulation' can be rather sparse, leading to significant variation in temperature during the day, and that's a great recipe for condensation.

You don't want your heating/dehumidifying system to be trying to heat/dehumidify the great outdoors!

25th Nov 2020, 9:00 pm	#1
mycjets Triode Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Westwoodside, Doncaster Posts: 49	Rockola Jukebox Heater? Hi, I have recently moved house and now have my Jukebox in a converted garage. Garage used as I am office/games room during the day. At night it can become quite cold and was thinking of obtaining a small anti condensation heater. Has anyone any experience of this? Was thinking about a small heater about 20-30 Watts fed via separate supply not via Jukebox supply. Any help appreciated. Thanks.

25th Nov 2020, 9:03 pm	#2
rontech Heptode Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Southport, Merseyside, UK. Posts: 646	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? How about one of those old inspection lamps with a caged 60 w filament bulb? They clamp onto a convenient place as well. __________________ Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana

25th Nov 2020, 9:18 pm	#3
Ed_Dinning Dekatron Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, Tyne & Wear, UK. Posts: 8,194	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? Hi, the control cabinets for outdoor switchgear (metal) in the 60's were typically fitted with a 100W heater (basically a big resistor ) that ran up to about 50C. You could probably get away with about 1/2 that, say a couple of 15w pygmy bulbs, nice and cheap. Ed

25th Nov 2020, 10:00 pm	#4
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,996	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? I'd suggest sticking a legacy 40W "GLS" filament-bulb in the bottom of the case. [in times-past when radio-hams often had a 'shack' that was just an unheated shed, VFO-drift when firing-up a transmitter or receiver - which could then be cycling from zero to 30 centigrade - was a problem - plenty of people fitted low-wattage lightbulbs in the cabinets of their receivers and transmitters to provide a schmierchen of background warmth and so avoid the "I'm following you up the band" drift-issues.

26th Nov 2020, 10:24 am	#5
vinrads Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK. Posts: 3,755	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? Definitely needs some form of heating otherwise could end up like this, Attached Thumbnails Last edited by vinrads; 26th Nov 2020 at 10:31 am.

26th Nov 2020, 12:05 pm	#6
ex 2 Base Heptode Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Scarborough, North Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 510	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? De- humidifier, I have one on 24/7 in my workshop, a bit of heat but no rust or condensation. When running about 200 watts but it cycles on/ off as and when. Ted

26th Nov 2020, 4:49 pm	#7
Richardgr Heptode Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Täby, Sweden Posts: 702	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? How about a concrete plinth containing one of those electrical underfloor heating kits? Eliminate the cold floor which would be source of condensation, as well as setting the ambient temperature.

26th Nov 2020, 7:34 pm	#8
Lucien Nunes Rest in Peace Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 2,508	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? Definitely consider a dehumidifier. Every watt of electricity consumed by a dehumidifier comes out as heat, so you lose nothing heat-wise compared to running a heater; but instead of the moisture condensing on the coldest surface, it gets collected. There are two types. Refrigerant dehumidifers are theoretically maintenance-free (apart from cleaning the air filter) and can operate on as little as 250W, but do not work at low temperatures. Some misbehave at very low temps because their defrost cycle does not work. Desiccant types typically use more juice (300-600W) and give out proportionately more heat, but work at any temperature (although with lower yield at low temps). The desiccant rotor has a finite life, although so far I don't have enough experience with desiccants to know how fast the performance drops off.

26th Nov 2020, 8:11 pm	#9
Bookman Hexode Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Taunton, Somerset, UK. Posts: 318	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? When it comes to enclosures for electrical equipment one has to consider how it will function within the environment it will operate. Separately, one will need to have knowledge of how the environment will impact, if at all upon the item. Put simply this is referred to ingress protection or IP rating and is of importance for areas of high percentage RH. In the first instance the enclosure will expand with heat during operation thus allowing the air around it to enter the enclosure and to then condense when the item is switched off. In such circumstances there are specific ACHs (anti condensation heaters) that can be purchased operative from a humidistat to allow some form of control. The heaters are normally flat steel devices or indeed could be a carbon filament lamp. There is also the potential to use a desiccant which I have noted are now available for use in wardrobes. The advantage of using an ACH is that warm air will be continually exiting the enclosure during operation and cooling down thus preventing cooler external air being drawn in. Hope this helps Joe

26th Nov 2020, 8:15 pm	#10
G6Tanuki Dekatron Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wiltshire, UK. Posts: 13,996	Re: Rockola Jukebox Heater? Yes a dehumidifier is a good idea. I've got an "Ebac Powerdri Professional" here [was around £200 from Screwfix] - living in a house with non-cavity, non-dampcourse walls and stone floors it's essential in the winter months to stop mould etc. You say you're using a converted garage: having seen the construction of some integral-with-the-house garages I'd suggest you check and improve the insulation too: the standard 'insulation' can be rather sparse, leading to significant variation in temperature during the day, and that's a great recipe for condensation. You don't want your heating/dehumidifying system to be trying to heat/dehumidify the great outdoors!