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Old 17th Aug 2021, 11:06 am   #21
andrewferguson
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simondm View Post
I'm pretty certain* that, even if the data connector is the same, they won't just work if connected to a PC 3.5" data cable. You'll need a different ribbon arrangement so they can "look" like a 5.25" drive. Ignore the infamous IBM "twist" in the ribbon - that only matters when using dual 5.25" disk drives on a single controller, but otherwise it's the same.
It's definitely possible, although there are some risks involved.

I have several PCWs (an 8256, an 8512, a 9512 and a 10). I'm pretty sure at least one still works, but like everyone else on this thread I'm too far away from Diane to be of use. I've also got (somewhere) a copy of LocoLink which I remember using with a Windows 95 laptop to transfer a couple of files (just as a test). And I think I have the PC version of LocoScript somewhere as well.

As with all older (and many newer!) magnetic storage medium, there is a danger that the disks have been damaged. There was (now defunct for quite a long time!) a company that specialised in recovering files from damaged PCW disks: Dave's Disk Doctor service, and Dave Smith has done a fantastic (and fairly technical in places) writeup of the history of the company, including details of many of the recovery techniques.

I'll keep an eye on this thread, in case there's any way I can help.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 1:43 pm   #22
GeoffB17
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Further to my earlier comments above...

Yes, 'dozens' of disks sounds daunting, but I'd guess that a number of the disks will be 'system' disks of one sort or another, and there would be no point in doing much with them. Other disks would be working copies of those 'system' disks, although some of these might contain the occasional 'original' file. Then, there would likely be a few blank and even unformatted disks that had been purchased, but not used yet. Any disks that have original work on them WOULD be important, but if Dad was being careful there should be backups of those disks at least, so maybe multiple copies.

So maybe a much less daunting task, just the effort to work out which disks are which!

Geoff
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Old 22nd Aug 2021, 4:48 pm   #23
DianeDavies
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I am unbelievably sorry for my lack of replies to all your efforts, I kept going to the tab but I didn't refresh and all your useful comments failed to appear. I am embarrassed to admit this basic error in front of you all but there we are! I am going to go through the replies, get the disks out from under the stairs and reply properly! Thank you team Vintage, always on hand to help!
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 4:32 pm   #24
DianeDavies
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I'm back! First the last post, yes GeoffB17, there are lots of system disks in the box under the stairs, there are original Locoscript disks, back-ups of these and many duplicate SOD Start of Day disks. One is labelled "Personal" but this might not be as sensitive as you might think. When Mum was alive I tried to teach her how to use the Amstrad and she asked me to look in it but if I recall there was nothing sensitive at all.
My Dad had three main interests, any of which might generate files he wanted to keep for his own reference:- his work as a health and safety adviser, his volunteering with the St John's Ambulance as a trainer, and his committee work for the RAFA. Unless he stuck the family history on a SOD disk it is not in this box. However my sister has in her garage a box about the size of 12 fruit juice 1litre cartons, which I haven't opened. Hopefully it isn't full!
I think you might be right that there could be an occasional significant file on a SOD disk, and at some point I shall try to see the contents of my sister's box, and try to narrow those down a bit.

Regarding the size of disk it seems to be slightly more than 3", but not a whole eighth more, see photo attached. My box also contained 3-4 print wheels. As you will see the Amstrad was a 9512, and I had mis-remembered it.
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 4:37 pm   #25
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

The disk in your first photo is a 3" disk.
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 4:53 pm   #26
DianeDavies
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Now for Simondm and andrew Ferguson's long and useful posts.
Here's a possibility:- we have an oldish PC tower called Spirit, which until recently had been relegated to storing photos and serving to link other computers to the printer and internet. Yes we actually had computers that couldn't talk to the internet and needed an intermediary! Now this PC has a CD drive, a 3.5 drive and something that might be a different format (possibly an optical drive, (I'll ask my husband when I see him...) BTW it also has a space for a 5.25" drive which we bought but never fitted. If one of those would admit the Amstrad disks would all I'd need then be the locolink software?

It's possible the other box contains manuals

As to damage, all I can say is until we boxed the disks up at house clearance they had never left my Dad's office. All the disks are in either cardboard cases or hard plastic cases, so the only damage would have to be electromagnetic, right?

Siriushardware is right it would be a lot easier to ask someone to do it for me, but I'm game to try if the drives will work!
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:03 pm   #27
DianeDavies
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So I think I need to re-check if the "homemade" disks were single side or double side, and If there is a copy of Locolink in my box, and check my sister's box for manuals and software that might get PC and Amstrad disks communicating, and see if Spirit has a suitable drive. Anything else I can be doing?
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:05 pm   #28
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Quote:
it would be a lot easier to ask someone to do it for me, but I'm game to try if the drives will work!
Your original request was for someone local who could read the discs for you so I thought the subsequent flood of suggestions about how to achieve it technically might be 'too much information'. If you want to try to have a go yourselves, then Game On.

3" discs drives were very rarely used on PCs and PC clones so I'm afraid your unidentified PC drive, if it is not an optical (CD or DVD) drive, is more likely to be something like an Iomega 'Zip' drive than a 3" disc drive.

However, if this machine was around in your Dad's time and belonged to him once, then he may have fitted a 3" drive for the very purpose you need one for now.

Therefore, we need a photo or two of any drives fitted in the PC which you can't immediately identify, and we also need to know what OS - presumably a version of Windows - the old PC is running. Windows 98? XP? Vista? Perhaps even Windows 7?
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:07 pm   #29
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

The only thing that can read a 3" disk is a 3" drive. You can't use any other size of floppy disk drive, or an optical drive or...

There were 3" drives which had the same interface as the normal PC floppy disk drives. If you could find one, it could be connected to a PC and with the right software you could read the Amstrad disks. But there are a lot of things you would have to get right. Quite apart from the fact that finding such a drive is not going to be trivial now.

The Amstrad PCW drives, even if you had one, will not plug straight into a PC. You need at least a special cable. You would probaly need a fair amount of experience with vintage computer hardware to get it to work.
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:15 pm   #30
DianeDavies
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Thanks Geoff for your suggestion

"I could do any A: disks, but not any B: ones. So I would need to try to work out which your disks are. If there are as many as you say, there is a probability that many are A: disks. Any markings on the disks could also help as to which sort they are. For example, if it's an A: disk, then both sides may have something written, if it's a B: disk then one side only. If I try to read a B: disk in my A: drive, then BOTH sides will give a disk error, but the data that may be there is NOT damaged.

I would be happy to try a handful, to see what sort of thing is there, and confirm how things might proceed."

There are lots of SOD disks so maybe it would be sensible to post you one or two to see what sort the rest might be. If you PM me with an address we could go with this, but no rush I'm going away for a few days from this weekend. What a pity I didn't post earlier as my husband was in Barry a couple of weeks ago, Timbucus!
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:17 pm   #31
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Looking around, I see PCW9512s available for as little as £50, and while it may be irritating to think of having to buy another one when you already had one and discarded it, you could always use it for the sole purpose of reading these discs and transferring the content to a PC via Locolink, and then put the PCW back on sale for about what you paid for it.

Technically speaking, this is probably the simplest and safest of all the possible ways you could try to do this yourself, as long as the acquired PCW works properly.
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:20 pm   #32
DianeDavies
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Siriushardware, thank you for those suggestions. Spirit was never my Dad's, I'll consult my husband about the extra drive and get back to you. He had the use of Spirit for several years and will instantly know what he installed! As I said above, brief intermission because of that novel concept... a holiday!
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:24 pm   #33
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Diane,

First thing - the 9512 used the CF2DD disks, i.e. the higher capacity ones, which I cannot access. The disk in your photo is certainly such a disk, I maybe had one just like it but had to get the files extracted commercially (for my collection of system files etc).

Yes, the 3" disk is just over 3", as you describe.

On the basis of the Loco System disk you show, the files will prob be Loco 2 files.

Yes, you CAN fit and use a 3" drive in a PC (older type), although the connecting cable is different, and the power lines are reversed so you MUST be careful there or you will blow the drive or damage the PC. Info is available on the web to make a data cable, which is about rearranging the wires in a 36 way PC type cable to connect to the 26 way connector on the 3" drive. I have a PC type 3.5" drive attached to my PCW, and this is the same thing in reverse. If you've got the drive attached, then you need a piece of software (I use a system called 22DISK) which can access the CP/M format from DOS and copy the files to and from the 3" disk. You could also use software to create an 'image' of the 3" disk, which is a PC file which can be used by a PCW emulator (running on a windows PC) exactly as if it were a real physical disk. So you could run Locoscript 2 on the PC within the Emulator and use your father's disks directly (or rather an image of them).

Or you could continue to try to get the files off the disks you have. I cannot do anything about that, as I don't have a CF2DD drive. But if you've got the files off, I can help with converting the files to plain text, or WP files, for accessing on a PC.

Oh, don't know if it's been mentioned before, but there is a PC version of LocoScript which can read in older versions (1 and 2 and maybe 3 as well). I have this, someone else said they had it too?

Geoff
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Old 27th Aug 2021, 5:51 pm   #34
TonyDuell
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffB17 View Post

Yes, you CAN fit and use a 3" drive in a PC (older type), although the connecting cable is different, and the power lines are reversed so you MUST be careful there or you will blow the drive or damage the PC. Info is available on the web to make a data cable, which is about rearranging the wires in a 36 way PC type cable to connect to the 26 way connector on the 3" drive. I have a PC type 3.5" drive attached to my PCW, and this is the same thing in reverse.
Actually there was a type of 3" drive which has exactly the same connectors as the PC 5.25" drive. 34 pin edge connector for data and the larger type of 4 pin power connector, wired the same way. I think Hitachi made them, and I should have the service manual somewhere.

Such drives were used in the Tatung Einstein, for example. I've also seen them connected to the BBC micro, and I've used with a Tandy Color Computer. But Amstrad didn't use them at least not in the PCW series. Those have the 26 pin connector as you suggest.

I've only ever seen the Hitachi drives as 40 cylinder units, both single and double head. They can thus read the lower density (CF2) Amstrad disks, but not the higher denisty CF2DDs. At one time genuine Amstrad disks had a red label for the former, a blue label for the latter I think
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Old 12th Sep 2021, 2:20 pm   #35
terrybull
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

I know discussion of eBay items is not permitted so I hope this is okay.
I’ve looked on eBay and there is this item for sale. item number 165018191522.
I have messaged the seller who believes it has the 3” drive. It’s in Derby which is pretty close to you. I stress I have no connection or knowledge of this seller at all.

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Old 12th Sep 2021, 11:28 pm   #36
GeoffB17
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

I've looked at the ebay ad, and this seems to be the correct machine, BUT..

The seller says the machine is working, but the ad does not show any disks, and there is no mention of any disks, and the screen is blank, and without any disks you cannot really tell if the machine IS working.

If you tried to get this machine, take the System disks with you and insist on trying to boot the machine with your disks. Better, use your 'Start of Day' copies.

If the machine clearly tries, but does not boot, this may be nothing more than a drive rubber band corroded, which is easy to fix.

Geoff
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Old 13th Sep 2021, 12:26 am   #37
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

I have a copy of the PCW8256/512 service manual which contains details of the disc drives but the scanned version is just too big to attach.

If anyone needs a copy PM me.

Keith
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Old 13th Sep 2021, 8:47 am   #38
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

As a matter of interest, how big?

(Although I have the User Manual, I don't have the Service Manual.)
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Old 13th Sep 2021, 9:03 am   #39
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Just over 4.2Mb.

Keith
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Old 13th Sep 2021, 9:14 am   #40
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Default Re: Amstrad PCW owner needed

Thanks. PM sent.
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