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28th Oct 2021, 11:05 am | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,898
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Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
I recently posted a thread about some TVs I found. The title I put was "TVs" which as I understand it is the plural of TV. The title has now gone a little random the first one has changed to TV's which to me means something belonging to a TV? Then it reverts to TVs then even more strange further down it changes to TV;s?
This makes me look as if I cannot punctuate correctly... I admit I may be a little sensitive about this but because of a terrible edjukation I have to watch my speeling and punctuation! Is this a forum glitch? https://www.bing.com/search?q=plural...fc426b9444a66e Rich
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28th Oct 2021, 11:38 am | #2 |
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
All occurrences of TV's and TV;s in your thread have been changed to TVs.
There is scope for confusion with plurals of abbreviations. TVs could be read as Tee Vee Ess. Similar problems can arise when dealing with valve types, particularly as some members don't capitalise them. So is it EL84's or EL84s? The latter could indicate a sub type in the same way as 6K7G or 6K7GT.
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28th Oct 2021, 2:08 pm | #3 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,898
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Many thanks for putting it right and for the explanation. I still don't know how it ended up like it was though? I am very careful when I post to get it right , well as right as I can.. I am aware how easy it is to cause confusion and for a posting to look a mess if it isn't checked.
Rich.
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28th Oct 2021, 4:41 pm | #4 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 381
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Shouldn't the title of this thread be 'from where is the random wrong punctuation coming?' Something to do with not ending a sentence with a preposition. Up with which I will not put!
Roger |
28th Oct 2021, 5:12 pm | #5 |
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
English is an evolving non proscribed language, some of the new stuff I find a tad annoying. That doesn’t stop me enjoying the content.
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28th Oct 2021, 5:15 pm | #6 |
Hexode
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 381
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
If my tongue were further in my cheek it would be visible from outside!
Roger |
28th Oct 2021, 5:41 pm | #7 | |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,587
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Quote:
"Ending a sentence with a preposition is permissible in the English language. There are theories that the false rule originates with the early usage guides of Joshua Poole and John Dryden, who were trying to align the language with Latin, but there is no reason to suggest ending a sentence with a preposition is wrong." True but unless we stick to some widely accepted conventions effective communication becomes difficult. As Rich points out TVs means something completely different from TV's. Alan |
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28th Oct 2021, 6:15 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newcastle, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 11,556
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
At work, the person whose job it is to organise infrastructure things recently decided to put signs on all the departmental doors so that people could find their way around more easily.
I spotted the one he'd put on our door when I was still about 30 feet away. It said:- REPAIR'S The apostrophe didn't survive for very long - (mere minutes). |
28th Oct 2021, 6:49 pm | #9 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,335
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
I have a studio next to a sign printer. They have a sign on the gate saying 'SMILE YOUR ON CCTV'. I can't say it fills me with confidence that they'd make me a good sign.
Every time I see a van or business with egregiously badly written signage I wonder how many people had to OK that design before it was produced. However, I've just had a letter from the Tate gallery asking me to renew my 'locals pass'. I expect they write it off as artistic licence. |
28th Oct 2021, 6:51 pm | #10 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,081
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Quote:
Adding a letter 's' does pluralise a noun (or sometimes 'es,' if the singular ends in 's,' 'x,' or 'z,' or 'ies' after dropping a final 'y' in the singular, but not if it's 'ey' at the end of the singular; or 'ves' if the singular ends in 'f' but not in 'ff' - or occasionally you pluralise by adding 'ren'). However, TV is an abbreviation, so I'd certainly pluralise it as TV's where the apostrophe denotes not possession, but missing letters. If in doubt, rewrite - thus 'TV Receivers' would cause no doubt, or 'TV Sets,' or just 'Televisions.' Or (as folk used to do) put full-stops in, thus 'T.V.'s.' |
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28th Oct 2021, 6:58 pm | #11 |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cornwall, UK.
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
That's interesting. I'd certainly write "TVs", in the same way as writing "1960s". I suppose following the line to its logical conclusion, we'd have T'V's! Or, in Roald Dahl's world, 'Mike Teevee'.
Quite a lot is individual style. I was always ribbed by my Latin teacher as my sub-clause-fuelled translations were reminiscent of Lord Macaulay. |
28th Oct 2021, 7:16 pm | #12 |
Moderator
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Location: Oxford, UK
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
There has always been some disagreement about the correct use of apostrophes. In the eighteenth century they were used quite loosely to indicate possession, abbreviations and plurals. The Victorians tightened up on this, and that's when the apostrophe ceased to be used to disambiguate plurals, at least by 'gentlemen'. English is basically a mess, because it descends from two incompatible phonetic and grammatic standards (Low German, like Dutch, and Latinate Norman French.)
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28th Oct 2021, 7:38 pm | #13 |
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
"It's and "its" catch people out.
It's a chair and its seat is upholstered.
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28th Oct 2021, 7:45 pm | #14 |
Heptode
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Newton Abbot, Devon, UK.
Posts: 761
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
I always think of it's as being possessive as well and/or an abbreviation of 'it is', so I'd have written that as:
It's a chair and it's seat is upholstered. Every day's a school day... See what I did there? |
28th Oct 2021, 7:51 pm | #15 | |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,587
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Quote:
Alan PS Using its to signify possession is of course an exception that proves the rule! Isn't the English language wonderful? |
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28th Oct 2021, 7:54 pm | #16 | |
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Quote:
As my English teacher said "You wouldn't say the dog followed it is owner, would you?
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28th Oct 2021, 8:08 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Basically the apostrophe for possessive only applies to nouns, not pronouns.
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28th Oct 2021, 8:10 pm | #18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
If I said there was a load of vintage TV's for disposal at my house I reckon most sane folks would understand wot's meant.
Lawrence. |
28th Oct 2021, 8:18 pm | #19 | |
Nonode
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,587
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Quote:
Alan |
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28th Oct 2021, 8:22 pm | #20 | ||
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
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Re: Where is the random wrong punctuation coming from?
Quote:
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