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Old 1st Jul 2019, 1:30 pm   #21
Studio263
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Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Can't understand why nobody likes this chassis.
Mainly disliked by lazy engineers who can't be bothered to learn new things. The Sony KV-1810UB was exactly the same, all that fuss over having to keep an eye on a couple of capacitors. If they can't fix it with a neon screwdriver and a hammer some people are not interested. I thought that the ICC5 was a perfectly good set, certainly no worse than many others that were on sale at the time.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 1:52 pm   #22
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As mentioned in post #4 of the link posted in post #12 of this thread about the cabinet tipping over once the back was removed and particularly after the chassis/circuit board was removed, this wasn't uncommon in various other models since then - thinking of the big Naiko CRT wide screen for one! I had virtually done with fixing TVs and the TV trade by about 1982, so don't really remember them and only came across these "modern" sets to fix on the odd occasion since.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 2:07 pm   #23
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Hopefully not coming under Tim's 'lazy engineer' category, we weren't keen on them either. The main reason's been touched on - as they aged more faults could and did appear, often resulting in the dreaded 'three strikes' trip. A loose field output thyristor could wreak havoc, as could the inevitable dry joints in the E-W circuit resulting in a banana where there used to be a coil. Often replacing diodes, coil and IC would result in good E/W - for ten seconds until the chip failed again. It was always a relief when the 'smell of burning' fault was the on/off switch blazing merrily away. We had a drawer full of the replacement kits.
I think the lack of a logical procedure for isolating the fault on a tripping set - it was usually a diode, but which one? - earned them their poor reputation.
Anyway, Tim, what was the ICC3 doing wearing a B&O's clothes?
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 3:38 pm   #24
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Originally Posted by Studio263 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Can't understand why nobody likes this chassis.
Mainly disliked by lazy engineers who can't be bothered to learn new things. The Sony KV-1810UB was exactly the same, all that fuss over having to keep an eye on a couple of capacitors. If they can't fix it with a neon screwdriver and a hammer some people are not interested. I thought that the ICC5 was a perfectly good set, certainly no worse than many others that were on sale at the time.
It wasn't that they were particularly difficult to repair ,it was simply how unreliable they were compared with other sets, Combine that with the fact that a dry joint or component failure would result in an avalanche effect and destroy other parts, then there was the Videocolor tube which sometimes failed prematurely.
What I didn't like as I stated in an earlier post was that they had a habit of coming back for a different fault after repair . They were definitely not as good as other sets of the period The "common fault" guide books were testament to that.
We were repairing TX10s and scrapping these.

I was talking to a mate last night and I mentioned this thread, he referred to them as "a pile of horrible Thompson S**te! "
In Retrospect Ferguson did independent dealers a favour with the Dixons deal it meant that a lot of us had moved on to other makes by the time they released this thing. Imagine having a load of these out on rent!

The Sony 1810 UB was another matter, by the time they started failing in any numbers they were old, the problem there was that once you had got them going and spent a fortune on Thyristors you found the tube was flat!
Anyway in a couple of hours we will find out if the turdovision lives!

Rich.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 4:58 pm   #25
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Quote Slidertogrid: "Imagine having a load of these out on rent!"

I had over a 100 ICC5 TVs out on rental so you could reckon there was at least one to fix every working day.

Quote Studio263: "Mainly disliked by lazy engineers who can't be bothered to learn new things."
At least these sets scared off the lazy guys out of the TV servicing trade so leaving only the really competent ones. By the year 2000 the TV sales and service business had become very unpleasant for independent traders.

And by 2000 most of the ICC5 models had been taken out of service. Ten year old sets by then, the normal lifespan for a TV set.

DFWB.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 5:06 pm   #26
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It's here! I couldn't resist trying it.... Dead. not a sausage! I am going to find the hammer and neon screwdriver prize the back off and have a look...
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 5:11 pm   #27
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Anyway, Tim, what was the ICC3 doing wearing a B&O's clothes?
The MX2000 and M20 wern't bad sets and they were very stylish, they still look amazing now. B&O had to use someone else's chassis as their 77XX was too big, and while there were 20" versions of the 30AX tube available (as used in the Beovision 5500 models of course) the large scan coils would have spoiled the shape of the back. I have to say, the picture and sound quality of these models was superb, especially the later MX2000 with the Videocolor tube (recognisable by white writing on the front, the ones with orange writing have Toshiba tubes which give slightly orangey reds).

The best feature of the ICC3 was the series step-up chopper circuit. If anything went wrong, the HT dropped back to about 110V and the active smoothing stopped working, leaving you with a small picture and a hum bar. All nice and gentle... The TEA2026 control IC played up a bit, but the TEA2029 from the ICC5 drops right in and seems to give even better performance.

I wouldn't mind another M20, but I've not seen one for years. B&O did ICC5-based sets too (MX3000 / MX4500 / MX5000), but the quality of the tubes was poor and they didn't seem to last like the 'proper' ones.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 5:24 pm   #28
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Well I managed to get the back off .. The dead fault didn't take too much finding the mains fuse has blown. It's not hard to spot why..

Let's disconnect the cap and bung in a new fuse and see what happens!
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 6:10 pm   #29
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Well it came on! Its just showing a very dim raster though not the bright snowy screen I was expecting.
Time to put it to one side for John to collect. I am getting hints that it will soon be Dinnertime and there is a hideous carbuncle on the dining room table...
"You saved it from a skip? And now its on the table cloth?" Yes, Ok fair enough. I will put it in the garage... " you do bring some junk home sometimes"

Well I cant argue with that!
John.. It's all yours!
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 6:23 pm   #30
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Never thought I'd be rooting for an ICC5, but I can't help but feel sorry for it. Oh Why...😨

Best of luck with it John.
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 7:56 pm   #31
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I liked these sets too, the faults were fairly predictable and fixable once you knew the root cause, it was only later as the chassis aged you got a few strange ones, same as any other chassis really.
I found them fairly reliable on the whole, there were certainly less reliable chassis around at the time.

Anyhow I am glad it has been saved well done JC for rescuing it oh and slidertogrid for the first aid
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Old 1st Jul 2019, 8:08 pm   #32
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To be honest I'm rather pleased it didn't just work after replacing the fuse, where's the fun in that. As for the lack of brightness I'd be rather surprised if the CRT is faulty but we'll see when I get it home.

Rich, I wil PM nearer the time and arrange collection and many thanks for saving it.

John.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 1:57 pm   #33
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Now do I get the 59P7 out of the shed? It worked when it was part-exchanged serven years ago and I hadn't the heart to skip it.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 5:34 pm   #34
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Ferguson produced a version of the ICC5 series which was fitted with a 21" 90 degree CRT. These sets were called along with 25" versions the "Interiors Range" of models, whatever that was meant to be.

The 90 degree CRT models were very reliable requiring very few service calls.

DFWB.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 5:37 pm   #35
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.....These sets were called along with 25" versions the "Interiors Range" of models, whatever that was meant to be.
Perhaps this implies that other models were rated for outdoors use, judging by the photo at the start of this thread perhaps they knew many would wind up in skips/tips?
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 8:41 pm   #36
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Mainly disliked by lazy engineers who can't be bothered to learn new things. The Sony KV-1810UB was exactly the same, all that fuss over having to keep an eye on a couple of capacitors.
When this thread started the 1810 was my first thougt. The main problem was the price of the silicone. (SG613?) They cost 50 punds here, each. Then there was the tube on these.
Then Telefunken 711 comes to mind. Easy fix, but lots of faults due to high temperature. When I had fixed numerous faults there was always one more and in the end you were rewarded with a duff tube.
Then there was the late 80's Philips sets with power supplies that had various sets with loads of SMDs that had to be replaced. (GR110?)
Then there were the Painterchip sets.....

The ICC5 wasn't that bad. If the sets were fault free I would have been out of business.

(I still have a BO with ICC3, stylish, but I'm not getting the fuzzy BO feeling as I know whats inside)
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 9:05 pm   #37
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I am not saying the Icc5 was the worst set ever but just because some sets were worse doesn't make it a good one!
I didn't have a lot of dealings with the 711 but I remember having a couple that had had burn ups in the line oscillator stage the osc transformer would burn up ISTR the components were tightly packed in around that stage so it made a bit of a mess... Later Telefunken sets were fine.
It's not a case of being lazy its a case of repairing sets profitably . some of us had too much competition to run the repair dept as a hobby. repairs had to be done efficiently fairly quickly and guaranteed.

So while its nice to think of an engineer sitting on a stool contemplating his next stroke of genius, smoking his pipe in the sun lit clean tidy workshop surrounded by all the latest test equipment service information and eager apprentices the truth was far from that in my experience....

Bread and butter repairs to well made sets that stayed working afterwards tended to subsidise the time wasted on over complicated badly designed feeble junk I'm sorry to say. and yes there was plenty of that and more to come.

We could all name our favourites and our lets say not favourites I am sure..
We had some Sharp sets that blew up on demo in the showroom in one case blowing the corner off the circuit board and while I am sure some people sold thousands and loved every moment we thought they were crap and preferred to sell something we and our customers could depend on...
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 9:30 pm   #38
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To whet you appetite for all things ICC5 some pictures including one model I never sold or rented, the model 59Q7. Same cabinet as the 59P7 but has the IKC2 chassis. Pic No2 Instruction book for the 59P7. Pic No 3 The model 59M5 which has the ICC5 IMC chassis. Last picture is of my 51K5. Should I fix it or kick it down the stairs?

DFWB.
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 9:36 pm   #39
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Default Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Ferguson produced a version of the ICC5 series which was fitted with a 21" 90 degree CRT. These sets were called along with 25" versions the "Interiors Range" of models, whatever that was meant to be.

The 90 degree CRT models were very reliable requiring very few service calls.

DFWB.
A scan from a 1987 Ferguson brochure....

Steve
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Old 2nd Jul 2019, 9:48 pm   #40
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Hi Steve,
Being 1987 models the sets in your catalogue will be equipped with the TX100 chassis. Later Interiors models were fitted with the ICC5 chassis.

DFWB.
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