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Old 25th Mar 2023, 3:53 pm   #1
Lesg0dfc
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Default Larkspur R210

Hi all,

Thank you for letting me join the group.

Looking for any info/ links on replacing the dial film, or complete dial assemble module on this radio. It seems that the instruction manual covering this procedure is not easy to find.

Best 73

Les/ G0DFC
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 5:37 pm   #2
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

it is available because I've used it but it was 30 odd years ago and I'm sorry I can't remember. Search amongst the EMERs and you should find it.

I'm going to send you a PM with forbidden info in it.

Jim
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 6:40 pm   #3
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

As Jim said, try the EMERs. I found "renew the filmscale"in EMER E284 para 36. If you need a copy let me know, but it should be available on the usual websites to download.

I think your main difficulty is going to be finding a new film scale though!


Richard
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 8:23 pm   #4
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

dont remember there being anything difficult about fitting the new film scale but it was probably a good 56 years since i did them [when in 31 command workshops reme ] tricky bit was getting it to track exactly to suit the out examiner .but as has been said before think you might find it difficult to get hold of a new one
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Old 25th Mar 2023, 11:21 pm   #5
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

So the task - if new film scales are not available - becomes repairing the existing one, and then refitting it.

The refitting should be straightforward, as already noted. But the repair of a filmscale is adifferent matter. I imagine there are two similar "faults": a partial split or tear in the film, or a complete split, so that the film is in two pieces. How to repair the split? I suppose that a small piece of film could be used as a bridge over the split, and it all held together with some glue, probably a specialist one that will withstand continual flexing.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has successfully done such a repair.
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Old 26th Mar 2023, 8:53 am   #6
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

I think the usual fault is ripped perforations caused by forcing a stiff mechanism. I believe they can be fixed by gluing replacements over the damaged section but then there are flexibility issues. Good luck!
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Old 26th Mar 2023, 9:27 am   #7
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex seismic View Post
I think the usual fault is ripped perforations caused by forcing a stiff mechanism. I believe they can be fixed by gluing replacements over the damaged section but then there are flexibility issues. Good luck!
What glue would you advise using?


Richard
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Old 26th Mar 2023, 12:59 pm   #8
ex seismic
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Never having had to do it I cannot really comment with any authority. I guess something which gently dissolves/welds the film material rather like MEK and plastic model kits. Back in the days of cine cameras and films in cinemas this must have been a common procedure.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 1:29 am   #9
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

There are lots of threads re the 210 on here, often conflated with the 209 and why not? eg "What is perceived as a better radio, the Lankspur R209 or the 210?14/3/21" by Adrian H in Darwen [near Rammy]. We don't need to be totally exclusive given the combined development history. There is a warning about film scales at post 2* This recent thread just got my attention as, coincidentally, I had been re-reading the same [actual] 1990 SW Mag articles just now and remembering my purchase of two sets from a shop across from the Oxford Fire Station [now an Arts Centre I believe?] The SW Mag and other "strip down" approaches worked very well but I don't think that I could be bothered then and just fed in an external 12v power source using panel pins in the socket. To my surprise it worked very well-a rugged build. Probably better than the 2009 overall I think.

Dave W

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Old 27th Mar 2023, 11:14 am   #10
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

There's a complete film scale assembly listed on eBay that would seem to solve your problem:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195669555627
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 2:27 pm   #11
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Recently fitted a newish film scale to my R210, two hands to do it are just about adequate but 4 hands make the job much easier, unless there is something I don't know about

John
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 6:24 pm   #12
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

In times-past I reworked a few R210 with ripped filmstrips by fitting a plate to the display-window and instaling a 5-digit LED frequency-counter based on a General Instruments AY-series chip, a Plessey prescaler/IF-offset divider and a Sprague ULN200x Darlington array to drive the displays.

It worked rather well resolving to 1KHz at the highest frequency, but it rather highlighted the poor long-term frequency-resettability of the R210!

These days I'd do it using a LCD.

Indeed, I remember seeing in the late-90s a video of someone in the US who had converted a filmstrip-display to use an all-pixel-addressable colour LCD to replicate [albeit with some noticeable lag] a filmstrip-dial.
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Old 27th Mar 2023, 9:26 pm   #13
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

I recall seeing a stack of R210 receivers at Colomor's Bedford warehouses in the 1990s. They looked good until I realised that all of them were missing their filmscales. Apparently they had been canabalised to repair other receivers - because the filmscales were not obtainable. Colomor used to refurbish rmilitary adios for sale overseas, as I recall. In the 1990s Giacomelli told me that they had a contract for supply of WS19 spares to some country in Africa.

I also recall someone telling me that the problem with the R210 filmscale is that it uses 70mm film stock, and that's a size that is no longer available.


Richard
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 11:19 am   #14
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Even rarer is the 100mm filmscale that GEC used on the Navy's CJA receivers.

Originals were individually numbered to the receiver with a similarly numbered spare carried in the receiver.
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 12:58 pm   #15
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

It's worth noting that the filmstrip 'dials' are now probably at least 50 years old if not older - and they experience chemical degradation with age even if they're not used. So if you manage to source a replacement filmstrip and wrangle it into place there's no guarantee it won't suffer a failure in the near future.

The age-degradation is essentially 'built in' to the chemistry of the strips; the insides of a R210 are [should be] hermetically sealed and dry, but still they decay.
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 1:20 pm   #16
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Hi All,
The "African country" that Richard refers to may well have been Somalia. I was there for some time in the mid-70's working on the telecoms infrastructure which included a very effective nationwide telegram network based entirely on 19 sets and CW working. At the time these were being supplied by Z&I Aero Services (subsequently taken over by Colomor I think)
The out-stations worked off truck batteries, which in most cases were charged by Charging Sets of various types in the abscence of any mains electricity supply. Even the remotest villages were covered (and in Somalia, remote means remote) and the whole network operated very effectively. There was a depot in Mogadishu where two guys worked repairing 19 sets, PSU's, Charging Sets and various other bits by stripping parts out of a great pile of equipment which filled one end of the shed.
There were some very interesting ex-Italian military manual switchboards in use also - brass bound, mahogany cased items which looked positively Victorian.
cheers
Peter G8BBZ
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 2:55 pm   #17
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Peter,

thanks for sharing those memories of Somalia. I always wondered what Colomor were doing with WS19s in Africa, and your explanation sounds very likely. I had a vague idea that they might be supplying some quasi-military (terrorist?) group, because Giacomelli wouldn't say anything about where the sets were going, not even a country!


Richard
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Old 28th Mar 2023, 3:47 pm   #18
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Regarding post 7 and suitable glue, the one that I resorted to on a RA17 was Isoamyl acetate as used for diy Cine film editing, usually performed in a jig assembly to keep alignment of perforations while the bond took place, may still be found on eBay.
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Old 30th Mar 2023, 5:11 pm   #19
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Default Re: Larkspur R210

Quote:
Originally Posted by trh01uk View Post
I recall seeing a stack of R210 receivers at Colomor's Bedford warehouses in the 1990s.

Likewise piled up in a shed behind Anchor Supplies Ltd (Nottingham) no doubt part of the same MOD release. (I wonder what the army was keeping them so long for?)

I've still got the one I bought.
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Old 30th Mar 2023, 5:17 pm   #20
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Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
(I wonder what the army was keeping them so long for?)
Don't you have things in dark cupboards somewhere that have just sat for a couple of decades? I certainly do - or did - as I am having a major clearout, and all sorts of things that have remained untouched for 20+ years have emerged.....only to be slung out. (A sure sign I am living in a house bigger than I need!)


Richard
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