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Old 25th Jun 2008, 11:28 am   #1
'LIVEWIRE?'
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Question Is Superglue OK for this......?

.....Securing items in place in a vintage valve car radio, I mean! To explain further I have made up a rectifier assembly, using 4 x 1n4007 diodes, and a 22nf 1kV Buffer Capacitor on a small piece of Veroboard to replace a defunct Selenium Rectifer in a '56 Blaupunkt Frankfurt. The assembly fits in the same position as the original rectifier, behind the Vibrator, and is held in position by one M2.5 bolt. If Superglue is applied to seal things in place, and prevent the board moving are there likely to be problems, bearing in mind the fact that the power pack runs warm?
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Old 25th Jun 2008, 11:52 am   #2
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

I don't like superglue because it is so fast setting and hard to remove.

I'm not exactly sure what you are doing but for similar kinds of things I have used silicone rubber sealant (the non-acidic variety). Although it's slow to set it hold things very strongly but you can get it all off if you ever have to. It's also a good insulator.
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Old 25th Jun 2008, 11:58 am   #3
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

I also don't really understand what you're trying to do here.

Superglue isn't a good choice if you want to stabilise components. A dollop of hot melt glue will do a much better job. This may soften if the assembly gets warm but it will stay viscous enough to hold everything together. This is often used commercially to stabilise things like big electrolytics on PCBs.

The power pack may have been running warm because of heat from the selenium rectifier, which you obviously won't be getting now.

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Old 25th Jun 2008, 4:01 pm   #4
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Hi,
I usually use a little dab of good old fashioned Humbrol enamel paint to lock things in place. Holds very well when set but can always be broken away if needs be.
Paul.
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Old 25th Jun 2008, 9:03 pm   #5
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Don't know what happened to my reply to Paul's post, in which I thanked him and GMB for their suggestions. I may well use silicone sealant, or perhaps build a 'mark II' version of the rectifier assembly that can be secured to the chassis with two nuts and bolts rather than one. My two main concerns wer keeping the rectifier components insulated from both the chassis and the vibrator can-there isn't a lot of space between them, and preventing movement due to vibration-the radio is going in a 1950s VW Beetle, which might fracture wiring connections.
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Old 25th Jun 2008, 9:25 pm   #6
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Good old Araldite is pretty permanent, won't melt.

Superglue can be much less reliable, the best way to release it is to heat it.
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Old 25th Jun 2008, 11:21 pm   #7
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Thumbs down Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Heating Superglue is NOT to be recommended!

If the fumes get in your eyes - which is almost a certainty - it is very painful, and the eyes take a long time to recover.

Al / Skywave.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 9:55 am   #8
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

I wasn't thinking of DELIBERATELY heating Superglue, just wondering whether it would be OK to use it to secure components inside a metal case housing the Power Pack of a Vintage valve car radio.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 10:10 am   #9
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

I don't think that superglue is the best adhesive for this as it tends to fail when heated, I wasn't suggesting that it was deliberately heated, but trying to illustrate that it may not be suitable. I have heard that jewelers use superglue and often use heat (hot water) to release it. However, the safety warning from Al/ Skwaye is very sensible.

Thinking about it, 20 years in manufacture of defence circuits, we never used cynoacrylates to permanently secure circuits, but we did use epoxy resin.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 3:59 pm   #10
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Superglue (cyanoacrylate) is excellent for some applications - I have used it to bond acrylic glass for a light cover which has held firm after years of UV exposure, heat and cold and battering by the elements .. but it can be brittle on some materials and can even harden the material itself. I have used it to bond a small Infra-Red PCB to the plastic casing behind a translucent panel in one of my PCs but this tended to break off quite easily after a while despite being solid when first fitted.

I would go for epoxy resin, especially the slow-setting stuff which I used to repair the mount on my rear-view mirror with! (I used superglue to secure the mount whilst the epoxy set). Using superglue alone held it securely for about a week then the mirror fell off


As for the fumes from cyanoacrylate .. been there, done that



BG
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 4:08 pm   #11
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Hi BG

Thats the sort of problem I have had with super glues.

Araldite is excellent stuff, recently had a smalll hole in the top of the copper hot water cylinder near the immersion heater boss, tried silicone sealant, plumbers jointing compound, very expensive leak sealer recommended by plumbers shop, none worked, so decided that soldering was the best solution. Thought that I had done a good job using a 100 W solder gumn and a 50 W iron together.

It looked fine, but I suspect that I still did not have enough heat to do a good job. It still leaked. Cleaned all this off and used slow set Araldite. Touch wood (head) its fine.
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 9:55 pm   #12
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

If going for Araldite then use the original slow setting stuff. Mix it thoroughly and then mix it again. A bit of heat will give a stronger bond too.

Another advantage of Araldite is that it will store indefinitely. I still have a pack with a price marked at 6/- (found at the back of a cupboard). This must be at least forty years old and yet is perfectly usable and effective.

Edward
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 10:23 pm   #13
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Post Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

But Unibond One Minute epoxy does all of the things the slow setting stuff does, but only in..one minute, so everything has to be prepared and lined up. It dries clear, does not shrink, is heat resistant, bonds to most materials as I found out when I repaired the wall mountings of a wooden trellis for my Clematis. (That's a climbing plant for all you techy people that never venture out of the workshop ) It is also very strong.

Superglue is ok on a lot of things but it can go powdery, and if spilt and mixed with water gets extremly hot

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Old 26th Jun 2008, 10:34 pm   #14
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brased View Post
If going for Araldite then use the original slow setting stuff. Mix it thoroughly and then mix it again. A bit of heat will give a stronger bond too.

Another advantage of Araldite is that it will store indefinitely. I still have a pack with a price marked at 6/- (found at the back of a cupboard). This must be at least forty years old and yet is perfectly usable and effective.

Edward
Me to with 6/- Araldite package Yes, true!

The fast epoxy will probably do most jobs, but there is no doubt, the slow settting one is the Rolls Royce!
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Old 26th Jun 2008, 10:39 pm   #15
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Post Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermanx2001 View Post
Me to with 6/- Araldite package Yes, true!

The fast epoxy will probably do most jobs, but there is no doubt, the slow settting one is the Rolls Royce!
I may even have a 6/- pack myself, good stuff even if it does smell like a dead rat

But Unibond is as good as it gets, and the one minute epoxy is like the latest Roller.

Geof

Last edited by geofy; 26th Jun 2008 at 10:48 pm.
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Old 27th Jun 2008, 4:10 pm   #16
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
A dollop of hot melt glue will do a much better job. This may soften if the assembly gets warm but it will stay viscous enough to hold everything together. This is often used commercially to stabilise things like big electrolytics on PCBs.
Paul
I have to agree with Paul. Hot melt is used in industry, and is easy to remove with solvent.
I don't like superglue for the things you are using it for, and Araldite sets hard so parts can be harder to remove if they go faulty.
Hot glue stick are cheap (Try Aldi).
Good luck
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Old 27th Jun 2008, 10:46 pm   #17
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geofy View Post
I may even have a 6/- pack myself, good stuff even if it does smell like a dead rat

But Unibond is as good as it gets, and the one minute epoxy is like the latest Roller.

Geof
Would epoxy putty be any good (if still obtainable)? I've used two varieties: blue and white striped stuff that goes off in about ten minutes after rubbing thoroughly into a ball or sausage-shape. I used it to fill a hole in a car once. It can be sanded and filed.

The other type was to fill an irregular hole in a wall prior to fitting a screw. It, too, gave about ten minutes manipulation time before setting.

Just a thought...
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Old 28th Jun 2008, 7:39 am   #18
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Don't know about the putty, Russell, but as this is to fix someting in place on a flat surface, rather than to fill a hole, maybe not. Thanks for the suggestion, though.
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Old 28th Jun 2008, 9:38 am   #19
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

Quote:
Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
Would epoxy putty be any good (if still obtainable)? I've used two varieties: blue and white striped stuff that goes off in about ten minutes after rubbing thoroughly into a ball or sausage-shape. I used it to fill a hole in a car once. It can be sanded and filed.

Milliput is still available and is very useful for many repairs and for moulding replacement components. Like other epoxy products it is probably a little too 'permanent' for this application.

http://www.milliput.co.uk

Edward
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Old 28th Jun 2008, 12:27 pm   #20
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Default Re: Is Superglue OK for this......?

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Milliput is still available and is very useful for many repairs and for moulding replacement components. Like other epoxy products it is probably a little too 'permanent' for this application.

http://www.milliput.co.uk

Edward
I suppose... What about those double-sided adhesive pads? I've used them before to good effect for holding veroboard in place, though not on anything subject to motor-vehicle vibration.
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