UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 27th Jan 2004, 2:27 pm   #1
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,785
Default Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Reading Christian Fletcher's thread on his Ekco A144 elsewhere on the forum, I was amazed by the amount of test equipment he has. Presumably he's a professional electronics engineer, and I'm not, but it made me think: Do I have the worst selection of test gear on the forum?

I have:

Analogue test meter bought from Proops (Tottenham Court Road) around 1983 for 99p

Digital test meter, £4 from a market stall, converted to use a 9V wall wart because it got through PP3s in about an hour

Home made lamp limiter

Does anybody manage to work with old radios with even less kit than this?

In eager anticipation, Paul
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 27th Jan 2004, 11:01 pm   #2
Sideband
Dekatron
 
Sideband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,548
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Hi Paul. Not sure if this thread will be moved to General Chat or Everything Else but anyway, in an effort to encourage replies, I think the very minimum you need for vintage radio repair is a multi-meter, and a lamp current limiter. You can fix most basic faults with these two items. Next would be a signal generator for alignment and signal injection. With these items you can fix almost any fault. It has to be said that for accurate alignment, you also need a service sheet. Some people may think a scope is useful. I dont think they are of much use with vintage radio...I've never had to use one on a vintage radio and most service information doesn't mention use of one either.

My own test equipment consists of a digital meter, an analogue meter, AM generator, AM/FM generator (this generator covers up to 250Mhz so is excellent for FM front-ends), a 0-30v 3amp power supply for transistor sets, Paul Stennings battery eliminator for portable valve sets, a test lamp, an audio generator (useful for checking frequency response of Hi Fi amplifiers), a stereo generator (for repairing stereo decoders) and an oscilloscope. It has to be said that most of the equipment was bought very cheaply or recovered from work when old test gear was slung out. Both generators and the scope were obtained this way. The stereo generator was home-built as was the valve power supply.

The bench is fitted with a cut-out and an isolation transformer...essential for working on AC/DC sets.


Rich

__________________
There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....
Sideband is offline  
Old 27th Jan 2004, 11:10 pm   #3
Paul Stenning
Administrator
 
Paul Stenning's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,060
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Quote:
Hi Paul. Not sure if this thread will be moved to General Chat or Everything Else...
Yes, General Radio Chat seems more appropriate since it's more general.
__________________

Paul Stenning
Forum Admin/Owner and BVWS Webmaster

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 29th Dec 2004 at 1:01 pm.
Paul Stenning is online now  
Old 27th Jan 2004, 11:27 pm   #4
jim_beacon
Retired Dormant Member
 
jim_beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Bishop's Waltham, Hants, UK.
Posts: 939
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

There's all sorts of test equipment here, but for general vintage work, most things can be repaired with a multimeter ( I have an AVO8 and a Fluke).

The next essential items are an Isolation transformer, and a Variac (or safety lamp), which seem to get used regardless of the type of mains supply in the set.

To align a set well, you need a good signal generator, of the several I have, I find the Marconi TF2002 series to be very good for general radio work, it is stable, easy to use, repaiarable, covers allthe frequencies required for domestic radio work, and can be used as a wobbulator, though with limited bandwidth. A useful addition is a coupling loop for sets with frame or ferrite aerials.

The other well used equipment here is:

AF ouptut meter - lets you get that last bit out of the alignment, and can be used in place of a speaker.

Oscilloscope. Not very often on general radio work, but can be handy for oscillators and tracing hum. Almost essential for setting up FM detectors, in conjunction with a sweep generator (I know there are other ways - but this works for me!)

Frequency counter - 'cause I'm to lazy to keep using the crystal calibrator on the TF2002.

I have lots of other bits, some like the Megger are used occasionally, others, like a R&S Polyskop, have been acquired for specific jobs, and I keep them " just in case " .

Really, with older test equipment, it is generally easy to repair, and a few pounds along with a couple of hours work, can make your fault finding a lot easier.

Jim.
jim_beacon is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2004, 9:38 am   #5
Mike Phelan
Dekatron
 
Mike Phelan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 4,609
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

I manage to get away with a £5 digital MM, a military spec Avo 8, an Advance E2 sig gen, and a wet finger.

Whan I did this sort of stuff for a living, these were supplemented with a scope (at one place, the little Cossor with the 'gas taps') and a Taylor signal tracer - the one with an EA50 in the probe, which was nearly the size of a baked-bean can.
One place also had a Mullard one-arm bandit (valve tester) to raise coffee money.

Mike

__________________
Mike.
Mike Phelan is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2004, 11:37 am   #6
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,785
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

I don't use (or have) an isolation transformer, and work on AC/DC sets 'live'. Is this really so dangerous? I *always* check for zero volts on the chassis before starting work, I know my ring main is wired correctly, and my body isn't earthed at any point.

I've grabbed hold of a 230V connection several times in the past (not while working on AC/DC radios) and while distinctly unpleasant it wasn't painful and didn't do any harm. The biggest danger would seem to be a physical injury caused when instinctively snatching the hand away from the live contact. I obviously wasn't touching earth or neutral with the other hand at the time

Best regards, Paul
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 28th Jan 2004, 12:41 pm   #7
quantum
Retired Dormant Member
 
quantum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 785
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

I suppose you equip yourself to suit best the types of technology you collect and the potential faults they are likely to suffer from. Since I tend to concentrate on table sets generally made before 1955, and therefore don't have that many sets with FM, I find that the usual meters are the most used pieces of equipment. I used to use a standard analog meter such as an Avo Minor, but these days use digital models. I keep a signal generator and signal tracer on hand, but don't seem to use them that often.

I built myself a variable stabilised power supply that can provide HT for up to 350 volts at 70ma, which could be used for testing in most of the sets I collect. I did build a variable low voltage stabilised supply some years ago when I was fiddling about with some hybrid car radios, but these days it does not get much of an outing.
quantum is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2004, 2:31 pm   #8
Sideband
Dekatron
 
Sideband's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Croydon, Surrey, UK.
Posts: 7,548
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Hi again.

I suppose it also depends on what you get used to. I learnt to use a 'scope and signal generator back in the 60's and when I started work, they were considered the very basic tools plus the test meter of course. I would feel pretty lost without a meter and sig generator when servicing radio's especially if alignment was needed. Of course test equipment is only any good if you know how to use it!!

Just picking up on a point made by Paul Sherwin earlier on in this thread. I think it would be somewhat dangerous to work on an AC/DC set without an isolating transformer when using a signal generator (for alignment say). My test gear is connected to raw mains and earthed. Anything I repair is connected to isolated mains via a transformer. I can connect the earthed test equipment to an AC/DC chassis without any bother. If I did not have an isolating transformer, I would have to disconnect the earths of the test gear which could then become live!!! Nasty!!

Personally I'd rather be safe to avoid nasty, possibly lethal accidents. It is also better for newcomers to the hobby to understand safe ways of working when reading this forum.

Rich.

__________________
There are lots of brilliant keyboard players and then there is Rick Wakeman.....
Sideband is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2004, 10:44 am   #9
Steve_Johnson
Retired Dormant Member
 
Steve_Johnson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fareham, Hants
Posts: 188
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

I guess my test gear is poor, then. A combined digital/analogue multimeter, a cheap (£30 eBay) scope that I've never used since I bought it and a Leader LSG17 sig. genny, likewise!

One safety/lamp limiter and a capacitor reformer.

Best test gear? Eyes and nose...look and smell.
Fault finding mainly done by instinct and substitution. From a practical perspective, I think recapping probably eliminates 90% of likely faults anyway?

Steve J
Steve_Johnson is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2004, 11:40 am   #10
ChristianFletcher
Heptode
 
ChristianFletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 900
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?


TEST EQUIPMENT - YOU WERE LUCKY - WE HAD TO USE A DAMP CLOTH !
WE USED GET UP HALF AND HOUR BEFORE GOING BED, WORK 36 HOURS A DAY DOWN AT MILL.
TRY TELLING THAT, THE YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY AND THEY WOULDN'T BELIEVE YOU!

I like gadgets and have to admit that I have a large amount of test equipment. I have in the past worked professionally in the electronics industry, but like many of my fellow engineers the bias has changed from analog to digital and now firmly software solutions. My test gear collection has grown steadily due in part to so many engineering firms going bust and selling up and various equipment. They didn't all go bust because I was working for them honest!

I think that your age has go a lot to do with the type of test equipment that is preferred. Scopes were quite exotic instruments when I was growing up, but my first job in industry was using a scope. I have said previously that I have seen little advice on using scopes for vintage radio work, but my bench is naked without my scope.

I really don't like the Avo 7 - 8 they may be built like tanks, but they are big heavy, slow to change between ranges and the dial is difficult to read at a glance. I think a modern fluke meter with analogue fluke bar graph is a much better proposition.

I purchased a isolating transformer partly on advice from various vintage radio related sites. I have found it useful and it can also serve to protect your test equipment as well as yourself. I think it is still important to remember that a serious electric shock can still result when using a isolating transformer.

I would also like to mention when working in my first electronics job 1990, we had a senior engineer there called Mr Bibbs. He was such a " god like " figure that I never new his first name. He used to make do with a knackered old digital meter with the probes falling off and a few old bent screw drivers. He was designing and building complicated digital communications systems with just these tools. Equipment is no substitute for experience.



__________________
Every Silver Lining Has Its Cloud https://youtube.com/channel/UCvBpiuUUnErJlNBm6DWb3Ww
ChristianFletcher is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2004, 12:26 pm   #11
Jeremy M0RVB
Hexode
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 455
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Quote:
Best test gear? Eyes and nose...look and smell.
And a hammer for when you get cross - ok, I don't actually fix anything any more...

Last edited by Paul Stenning; 29th Dec 2004 at 1:02 pm.
Jeremy M0RVB is online now  
Old 30th Jan 2004, 12:35 pm   #12
ChristianFletcher
Heptode
 
ChristianFletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 900
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Yes a hammer will work In combination with a prodding stick to see if its really dead yet !
__________________
Every Silver Lining Has Its Cloud https://youtube.com/channel/UCvBpiuUUnErJlNBm6DWb3Ww
ChristianFletcher is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2004, 12:56 pm   #13
ppppenguin
Retired Dormant Member
 
ppppenguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: North London, UK.
Posts: 6,168
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

And some garlic for some of the Eastern European sets...



PS: Failing selenium rectifiers might do as a garlic substitue.

Last edited by Jeremy M0RVB; 2nd Jan 2005 at 12:51 am.
ppppenguin is offline  
Old 30th Jan 2004, 8:38 pm   #14
ChristianFletcher
Heptode
 
ChristianFletcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 900
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Just wanted to pick up on Paul's point on electric shocks.

Having commissioned very many machines with supply voltages ranging from low voltage 3 phase 415v - 15Kv AC and 750 volt Dc systems . I have suffered the odd belt or two, lets just it call it an occupational hazard.

I believed that DC shocks are always much more unpleasant. I guess that with an AC system you have 100 times a second to let go. In contrast Dc has a real clenching affect and you may be unable to release a live object.

__________________
Every Silver Lining Has Its Cloud https://youtube.com/channel/UCvBpiuUUnErJlNBm6DWb3Ww
ChristianFletcher is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2004, 8:03 pm   #15
rigsby27
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wolverhampton, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 64
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Hi Christian,

36 HOURS A DAY DOWN PITT !! LUXURY !! ..

THERE WERE 24 OF US LIVING IN SHOE BOX INT MIDDLE OF TH' ROAD.....


I quite agree with your comments, test equipment use is a personal thing and what you have been trained and brought up with.

I like you, would struggle without a scope,don't forget you can measure just about anything with a scope.
I have never liked the Avo 8 and much prefer digital meters including an Avo M808 (expensive but solid ).I also now own an Advance E2 not had time to play with it yet but my frequency counter seems to think is reasonably stable but the dial is a bit out.The other bit I use a lot is a digital capactance meter

As for safety,my workshop has a rubber covered floor then carpet on top and isolated mains to all bench sockets.

Basic safty rules are common sense;
Never 'grab hold' of 2 parts of a chassis.I was taught service is carried out with your right hand only, with your left hand in your pocket, standing on you right leg only.

If you haven't by this time fallen over, a shock is only a shock when you'r not expecting it!!

TRY TELLING THE KIDS OF TODAY Ect Ect.

Best regards,

Tony.
rigsby27 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2004, 12:01 am   #16
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Seeing the tongue-in-cheek entries above reminds me of a joke I once heard. An Engineer was called to repair an intermittent fault on a TV. He took one look at the screen and thumped the cabinet, whereupon the fault cleared. He then presented a bill for 5 Guineas. On being asked to justify such a large figure, the Engineer said that it was 5 shillings for the thump and £5 for knowing where and how hard to hit it!
On a more serious note, yes a DVM is more convenient and very accurate, but it's high impedance will result in that 3 decimal point reading being higher than quoted in most service data (at least for our likely subjects) due to reduced loading. Also, when a reading is varying, as they often do under fault conditions, the needle is much more use than a jumble of digits. Even the Fluke type bargraph is confusing when the autorange function messes it up. To cover all eventualities I use both as required.
AC/HL is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2004, 7:28 pm   #17
Hybrid tellies
Nonode
 
Hybrid tellies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area.
Posts: 2,965
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

I just manage with my old tool box from my telly repair days. A good selection of screwdrivers,home made jump leads etc. I use my old digital multimeter which is now over 20 years old and is heading for classic status.
I have recently obtained an old valve signal generater the Widsor 65c which works superbly and an old duel beam scope the Telequipment D52 which does need some attention.
Also pressed into service is a sine/square wave generator which we built at Bath college 25 years ago.
I am also about to build a lamp limiter and knock up a capacitor reformer which I might just tag something onto my old crt booster which also dates back to 1977 or so.
As I said in the isolating transformer topic, I do not use either an isolating transformer or RCD. I would rather fall back on my years of experiance and caution.
Finally my favourite soldering iron is an old 25w Antex again at least 25 years old. Its great for both pcb and chassis work.
__________________
Simon
BVWS member
Hybrid tellies is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2004, 9:50 pm   #18
Gordon
Pentode
 
Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 131
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

When I set myself up with a little workshop a few years ago I bought an AVO Valve Characteristic Meter/Oscilloscope/DVM/Model 8 AVO/Sig Gen and an Isolating Transformer. I mostly use the DVM followed by the Model 8 (good for verifying potentiometer tracks). I've used the scope about twice in five years, likewise the valve tester.
Like all workshop things, it's nice to have them at hand when you need them.
Oh, I forgot. A 220 V to 110 V transformer is for me essential.
Working on really high-power equipment taught me to have a healthy respect electricity.

Gordon.
Gordon is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2004, 2:38 am   #19
Alan_Douglas
Retired Dormant Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 59
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

>>I really don't like the Avo 7 - 8 they may be built like tanks, but they are big heavy, slow to change between ranges and the dial is difficult to read at a glance.

Over here it's the Simpson 260 but the same criticism applies. Having used an autoranging Fluke for voltage measurements, I'd never go back. However the Simpson is more suited to current monitoring or for checking pots for poor contact over their range.

I confess I'm a test-equipment junkie, and much of the gear gets used only to troubleshoot other test gear. I have at least sixty valve testers, but my excuse is that I wrote a book on the subject and had to have the toys to play with, to be able to write from experience. Besides they were cheap.
Alan_Douglas is offline  
Old 16th Feb 2004, 10:35 am   #20
mikelect
Retired Dormant Member
 
mikelect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK.
Posts: 799
Default Re: Best and most poorly equipped forum members?

Hi Alan, I don't suppose that you have any info on Mullard valve testers I'm looking for anything on the Mullard CT80 high speed tester either service or ops or if not do you know anyone who has

Hopefully

Mike
mikelect is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 1:38 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.