UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 3rd May 2018, 6:08 pm   #141
russell_w_b
Dekatron
 
russell_w_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
Posts: 3,684
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardyman View Post
I fear there are far too many Americanism's creeping into our language...
But aren't the Americanisms derived in part from those original settlers who arrived on the Mayflower, and therefore straight from Old English where they have remained unchanged as Old English in England evolved into New English?
__________________
Regds,

Russell W. B.
G4YLI.
russell_w_b is offline  
Old 3rd May 2018, 10:05 pm   #142
m0cemdave
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 1,205
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Yes, a lot of Americanisms are older than their modern British English equivalents. But I think you mean "Early Modern" English, similar to that found in Shakespeare and the King James Bible.

--------

One thing that can cause serious confusion is the use of the casual abbreviation "mils" for millimetres, which means 1/1000 inch (a thou') in the USA.
A factor of 39.37 is quite a big error...
m0cemdave is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 8:55 am   #143
kalee20
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,059
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC/HL View Post
And passengers became customers. We're all customers now, whatever the service. That's life.
A bit like the telephone service - it used to have subscribers, now we're customers.

But then, why not? It must make things difficult for people learning English! (Which games have umpires, and which games have referees?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardyman View Post
A younger lad came in behind us & when he made his order he began by saying, "So, can I get a......", we both cringed. Why are so many people these days beginning a sentence with "so.."?
And no you may not get anything, you are the other side of the counter for a good reason, you are a customer not a helper.
Why? Probably for the same reason that you started your own next sentence with a conjunction! Because it gets the meaning across!
kalee20 is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 2:07 pm   #144
Beardyman
Hexode
 
Beardyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK.
Posts: 421
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Well spotted Kalee20!

Beginning a sentence with a conjunction when I was at school was verboten in every sense. You could receive a severe castigation from not only your form teacher but, if you persisted, a thrashing from the headmaster. Apparently it is accepted practice these days & in the past.

And let every other power know that this hemisphere intends to remain the master of its own house. (John F Kennedy)

I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But, this wasn't it. (Groucho Marx)

I'm afraid I still find the new trend of beginning nearly every sentence with "So...." puts my teeth on edge.
__________________
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. (Einstein)
Beardyman is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 2:15 pm   #145
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

"So" isn't a new trend, it's been used for yonks and yonks so far as I can remember, I still use it.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 2:25 pm   #146
Richard_FM
Octode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 1,999
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

I've heard starting a sentence with hopefully was banned by the house style of one of the bigger American papers (New York Times or Chicago Tribune?), & this had a knock on effect with general speech.

My Kenyan / Ugandan wife has some odd uses of English, calling small coffee tables stools & thin gravy soup!
Richard_FM is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 2:53 pm   #147
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Flashlight did indeed come from the dire zinc/carbon cells of the day, America (talking english) is too young to have used (wood and tar) torches to any great extent. Lanterns would have been the light source before batteries.
 
Old 4th May 2018, 3:02 pm   #148
broadgage
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Somerset, UK.
Posts: 2,129
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

I don't mind new terms coming into use when this makes the meaning clearer or avoids doubt and ambiguity.

"Flashlight" is IMHO acceptable since it makes the meaning clearer and avoids confusion with oxy-acetylene torches used for metal working or propane torches used for applying bitumastic roofing.

Likewise I avoid terms which have different meanings in different English speaking cultures. "paraffin" in the UK means a non volatile liquid fuel, commonly used in portable lamps and heaters. In the USA it means the solid wax from which candles are made. In other countries it can mean a highly purified type of oil used medically. Better therefore to refer to "kerosene" or to "candle wax" or to "medicinal paraffin"

In the UK a vest is a garment primarily intended to be worn under a shirt. In the USA it means a sleeveless waistcoat or jacket. Better therefore to refer to "undershirts" or to "waistcoats" especially in an international context.

Not so sure about valves versus tubes, since either term could be confused with valves for controlling water or gas supplies, or with tubes that convey fluids. Usually the context makes the intended meaning clear, but if in doubt ensure clarity by use "electronic valve" "radio valve" "receiver tube"
broadgage is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 5:31 pm   #149
G8HQP Dave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Solihull, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 4,872
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Last night an English BBC correspondent reporting on a current American story (which I will not mention) for BBC News said that someone had poured 'kerosene' on a fire. I would have preferred 'petrol', as that is the usual English usage for the metaphor. Many older English folk may not know what kerosene is.
G8HQP Dave is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 5:38 pm   #150
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

We never used tube instead of valve, generally speaking, although we did use plate for anode in the very early days.
Tube can be preceded by other words, such as discharge or picture. On it's own it refers to the latter.
AC/HL is online now  
Old 4th May 2018, 5:48 pm   #151
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
A bit like the telephone service - it used to have subscribers, now we're customers.
I quite like being described as a "customer" by the likes of rail-franchises and telcos: it at least implies that they now recognise those they're serving are the ones who pay their wages.

"The next station stop" used by the onboard announcers is my big rail-related vocabulary-hate.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 5:55 pm   #152
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

I've still got a can of white gas kicking around somewhere. (whoops)

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 6:32 pm   #153
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8HQP Dave View Post
Last night an English BBC correspondent reporting on a current American story (which I will not mention) for BBC News said that someone had poured 'kerosene' on a fire. I would have preferred 'petrol', as that is the usual English usage for the metaphor. Many older English folk may not know what kerosene is.
Kerosene and petrol are not the same!

Even back in the 1960s my late father would refer to "Kero" when talking about the 32-second fuel he was ordering for our central-heating.

[Why are heating-oils still classified as 28- 32- and 36-second grades? I'm sure there are more modern designations]

I'm more familiar with AVGAS and AVTUR or Jet-A1. The UK military also had "Combatgas" for its general-purpose road-vehicle petrol.

Paraffin? Anyone remember the "Pink Pongos" who advertised Aladdin paraffin, and "Boom boom boom boom: Esso Blue!" ??
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 6:35 pm   #154
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Used get our paraffin from the Esso blee dooler.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 6:51 pm   #155
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
"The next station stop"
I think that is quite correct and useful, sometimes I have heard "The next station is ....... and this train is not scheduled to stop there.
 
Old 4th May 2018, 8:39 pm   #156
MotorBikeLes
Nonode
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kirk Michael, Isle of Man
Posts: 2,346
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

G6 Tanuki, Kerosene is surely 28 seconds. Diesel (when sold with the red dyeat any rate) is 35 seconds.
Paraffin is thinner than kerosene, so lower viscosity number, but not sure offhand what. I have all the reference books, but not looking right now.
I have an oil burning Rayburn with vapourising burners, and apparently id must NOT contain any red fuel as the burners will not work. I think this is an exaggeration, but they would certainly smoke badly if too much were present.
I think they are Redwood No. 1 seconds used for such fuels.
Les.
MotorBikeLes is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 9:02 pm   #157
G6Tanuki
Dekatron
 
G6Tanuki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 13,951
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorBikeLes View Post
G6 Tanuki, Kerosene is surely 28 seconds. Diesel (when sold with the red dyeat any rate) is 35 seconds.
Paraffin is thinner than kerosene, so lower viscosity number.
Our central-heating ran on 32-second kero: we had 36-sec in 5000-gallon tanks to fuel the grain-dryers and the 3-cylinder Lister-Petter generator for when the 1970s-era power-cuts cut in.

I always thought the difference between paraffin and kero was that paraffin [intended for stoves/heaters whose combustion-gases would be released into the house] had more of the nasty sulphurous stuff distilled-out.

"They asked me how I knew
It was Esso Blue ??
I of course replied
With lower grades one buys
Smoke gets in your eyes. ."

We never had paraffin heaters at home: the nearest we got to such things was a wheel-aboutable Calor-gas "Super Ser" heater used to keep the frost out of the sunlounge. To this day I don't like combustion-heaters whose air-supply and combustion-exhaust are into living spaces: in a straight fight-for-oxygen between us air-breathing mammals and a combustion-device in a closed space, the mammals will always lose.
G6Tanuki is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 10:51 pm   #158
julie_m
Dekatron
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Derby, UK.
Posts: 7,735
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Quote:
Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
[I]n a straight fight-for-oxygen between us air-breathing mammals and a combustion-device in a closed space, the mammals will always lose.
I am so borrowing that .....
__________________
If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.
julie_m is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 10:56 pm   #159
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,799
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Oxygen consumption competition is bad, but partial combustion leading to carbon monoxide is far, far worse from the viewpoint of the mammals.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 4th May 2018, 11:12 pm   #160
Synchrodyne
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Papamoa Beach, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
Posts: 2,943
Default Re: Vintage technology terminology

Interesting here are the differing perceptions of the precedence of different terms for the same object.

For example, flashlight was the original name for the battery-electric handheld lamp, for reasons already mentioned. In the British-influenced world, the name “torch” was evidently purloined from the long-established handheld combustion lamp – not unreasonable considering that they did similar jobs. But when the term “flashlight” entered the UK lexicon, it was perceived as the newcomer and by some as an interloper.

At least basis my experience, if one used the term “torch” in the USA, then it was taken to mean the old combustion lamp, not a flashlight.

I must admit that having lived in several countries, I tend to have a (largely unconscious) mix-and-match approach, choosing what I think are the most appropriate terms, sometimes to the chagrin of SWMBO. So our car has a trunk, and I fill it with gasoline, even though boot and petrol are normal here in NZ. I walk on the sidewalk (footpath), and cross the road on a crosswalk (pedestrian crossing here, but that sounds, well, ….so pedestrian). And I endeavour to buy ground beef at the butcher’s shop, although after being met by too many blank stares I have reverted to steak mince. On the other hand, that rotative traffic mixing and impedance matching device could come out as either a roundabout or a traffic circle.

An aspect of having one’s formative years in a small and remote country like NZ is that as well as local terminology, we were well exposed to both UK and American terminology through radio and TV programmes, literature, movies, and so on. So much, although certainly not all of the alternative names and expressions were known when one arrived upon those shores. Conversely, names and expressions peculiar to NZ were hardly known at all, and one soon dropped them from the daily vocabulary. South Africa had its own set of unfamiliar terms, though.

Mostly NZ followed British practice, but not always. For example, “wireless” meaning radio in general or radio receivers in particular was not unknown, but radio was the normal and widespread term. The sidewalk was called a footpath, because often, outside of inner urban areas, that is what it was, an unimproved or perhaps gravelled pathway by the roadside. I understand that “pavement” for sidewalk in the UK stemmed from the fact that often city sidewalks were paved or otherwise improved whilst the roadway was not. As observed upthread, in the USA, pavement refers to the road surface. I’d argue that sidewalk is unambiguous everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotorBikeLes View Post
Paraffin is thinner than kerosene, so lower viscosity number, but not sure offhand what.
No. What is called “paraffin” in the UK and one or two other places is simply a particular type of kerosene. It will likely have left the refinery as “premium kerosene”, and for duty purposes in the UK was – and may still be - referred to as “premium burning oil”, finally being sold as paraffin.

It was named paraffin because in the old days, the specific requirements for a fuel suitable for use in flueless, wick-fed, domestic burners were most easily obtained by taking the kerosene cut from highly paraffinic crude oils. Thus, the product was, chemically speaking, very rich in paraffins whilst having very low aromatics and naphthenes contents. Development of refining techniques later allowed premium kerosene to be obtained from a much wider variety of crudes. Whilst paraffin is a subset of kerosene, the terms are not interchangeable, although that mistake is sometimes made. An odd consequence was that in South Africa, power kerosene was referred to as power paraffin, a real oxymoron, as power kerosene (quaintly tractor vaporizing oil in the UK) is quite aromatic.

That excursion into petroleum technology may be well off-topic for this forum, although as a sliver of a defence, I’ll record that kerosene is sometimes mentioned as a cleaning solvent for electronic parts. Highly aromatic power kerosene would have much greater solvency than highly paraffinic premium kerosene, but is directionally less desirable on the H&S front. The basic rule with petroleum solvents is to use a product that is no more volatile nor more aromatic than actually needed. So for example use LAWS (low aromatic white spirit) rather than HAWS (high aromatic white spirit aka mineral turpentine).


Cheers,
Synchrodyne is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:25 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.