UK Medium Wave and Long Wave Transmitter Closures.

[Catkins]

Originally Posted by Catkins

Saw this today - Sunshine Radio granted permission to turn off AM frequency

Sorry, URL should be https://radiotoday.co.uk/2024/01/sun...-am-frequency/

[toprepairman]

Would I be right in thinking if the R4 LW transmitter is switched off then all the radio locked clocks will stop working?

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by toprepairman

Would I be right in thinking if the R4 LW transmitter is switched off then all the radio locked clocks will stop working?

No, the 'radio locked' clocks use either MSF on 60KHz [transmitted from Anthorn in Scotland] or DCF77 on 77KHz which is from somewhere in Germany.

Or they alternatively use time-signals transmitted as part of the RDS data on FM or its equivalent on DAB (the radio in my car, and my 25-year-old Sony bedside clock-radio both do this).

The only time-relevant thing still associated with R4LW is the signalling used for the old "Radio Teleswitch" things used with Economy-7 dual-tariff electricity-meters. These are being moved to smart-meters by the DNOs, though it's not happening as fast as it could.

[Station X]

No. Radio controlled clocks use signals from a transmitter in Anthorn

https://w.wiki/97sP

[toprepairman]

Thanks for that, sigh of relief here.
So what about the leccy meters for economy 7, will they continue to run anyway?
I suspect mine is somehow not getting a signal as it stays on GMT all year round and is currently about 6 minutes out.

[Nuvistor]

If it’s your radio clock that is out it could be worth moving it, there is a lot of interference around 60Khz and could be masking the radio signal. I have had this a few times using radio clocks.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by toprepairman

So what about the leccy meters for economy 7, will they continue to run anyway?

There's been talk of running a low-power 198KHz transmitter with just the phase-modulation for radio-teleswitching. The costs to be funded by the Electricity industry.

It's been calculated that they only need a 50KW carrier to do the teleswitching, rather than whatever power R4LW is currently running.

Something similar happened to the French Allouis 162KHz transmitter which once carried AM broadcast-audio programming alongside the phase-modulated time-signals used by the French railways etc, but now has its power reduced and only carries the time-signals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloui...ve_transmitter

[Peter88gate]

I have a Radio Teleswitch which operates my storage heaters and hot water supply via a two rate electricity meter.

EDF (who supply my power) currently state that the RTS service has been extended until 2025. The Energy Networks Association who have overall control of the running and maintenance of the RTS system say the service has been extended until March 2025. Some other sources say the service has been extended until September 2025.

Whether the R4LW transmitter will be switched of at the end of March remains to be seen!

Peter

[kalee20]

Maybe this thread title should be broadened to Medium and Long Wave Transmitter closures?

The 198kHz BBC Radio 4 service is currently off-topic!

[Station X]

Thread title updated.

[Pfraser]

Another source on BBC R4 LW life extension. Michel Fremy of the Radio Magazine FB Group; translated at Ydun's Medium Wave Info:

As explained previously: the transmitter broadcasts a teleswitch signal from the Energy Networks Association. This signal causes the prices of old electricity meters to vary. The contract between Elexon and the Energy Networks Association (ENA) aimed at passing on operational costs, amounting to almost 6 million euros, expired on March 31, 2024. The electricians had to replace all the old meters before this date. That’s far from being the case! Earlier this week, “This is Money” reported that the technology still powers 900,000 old meters.

As a result, the emissions will continue for 1 additional year, ending at the end of March 2025.
As always, we promise, the date will not be postponed again.
As always, the BBC can no longer guarantee operational and maintenance service beyond this date.

Michel Fremy, Radio Magazine FB group (2024-02-15)

If this is the sole reason for the extension, a power reduction and (presumably) the removal of programme material would seem logical.

[paulsherwin]

There seems no reason to end the programme feed if the transmitter is going to stay on air. It seems a very expensive solution to the Economy 7 problem though.

[turretslug]

That would be my thinking too, yet 162kHz continues as carrier with no programme, just a phase-modulated time signal, albeit at somewhat lower power than previously.

[Tractionist]

Originally Posted by Peter88gate

I have a Radio Teleswitch which operates my storage heaters and hot water supply via a two rate electricity meter.

EDF (who supply my power) currently state that the RTS service has been extended until 2025. The Energy Networks Association who have overall control of the running and maintenance of the RTS system say the service has been extended until March 2025. Some other sources say the service has been extended until September 2025.

Whether the R4LW transmitter will be switched of at the end of March remains to be seen!

Peter

An interesting article: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/othe...3d9dc71&ei=162

[Station X]

From what I read we can be certain that the Droitwich 198kHz LW transmitter won't be switched off at the end of March 2024.

The question is will it continue to broadcast BBC Radio 4 programmes after that date? The end of March 2024 is only six weeks away so if broadcasting is to cease I'd expect some kind of announcement from the BBC very shortly. In the meantime no news is good news.

[kalee20]

I'd hope not! If the transmitter is running, then modulating its amplitude would surely be a very small part of the running cost?

(And I can put off building my LW pantry transmitter for another year!)

[Station X]

I wondered about modulating costs. There's also the cost of the studio to transmitter links to be factored in.

[kalee20]

True.

Though if push came to shove, a decent FM tuner, receiving off-air Radio 4, and feeding the Droitwich modulator, would keep the service active!

There's plenty of good hi-fi tuners on ebay for under £100. If there's nobody at the BBC or Arqiva to think of that, then I'll offer it as a solution!

[Nuvistor]

What power level is the AM modulator? If it’s a few kw and Linear amp from there on it would not cost a lot to keep the audio, however it’s is many kilowatts then that’s a consideration for closing the R4audio.
I don’t know anything about high power AM transmitters so an honest question.

[G6Tanuki]

Originally Posted by kalee20

I'd hope not! If the transmitter is running, then modulating its amplitude would surely be a very small part of the running cost?

(And I can put off building my LW pantry transmitter for another year!)

AM modulators are big heavy things that take a lot of power. ..
To modulate a 100KW transmitter you need at least 50KW of audio, and that has to be produced - if you are still using valve technology - using Class B whereas the RF side can run in Class C for efficiency.

You will probably consume as much power in the modulator as in the RF output...

The French reduced the carrier power of the Allouis transmitter when they removed the audio component, because the low data rate phase modulated signal didn't need to run with the old full power carrier to do its time signal duty.

Also I guess that if Droitwich was kept on just to provide radio teleswitch service it might be possible to turn the carrier off except for short periods when a meter switching event needs to be signalled. Again saving power.