UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 6th May 2021, 11:15 am   #1
geeoboeh2s
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Berkshire, UK.
Posts: 72
Default Household aerial length limitation

I seem to remember that at one time the maximum length of a household wire aerial was limited to 100ft.
Can anyone confirm this and for how long it was in place.

Chris
geeoboeh2s is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 12:13 pm   #2
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

It might have been a local authority matter. In the Becontree housng estate in Essex, any sort of external aerial was prohibited without permission, including TV aerials, as a term of the tenancy agreement, so people had to have them put in their lofts.

Last edited by emeritus; 6th May 2021 at 12:14 pm. Reason: typos
emeritus is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 12:19 pm   #3
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Yes, a requirement of the licence back in the early days, 100ft maximum antenna length including downlead so far as I know.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 12:19 pm   #4
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

The only thing I recollect from my early amateur radio licence is that aerials within a certain distance from an airfield weren't to exceed a certain height.

Wire aerials aren't a permitted development as far as planning regulations are concerned. Whoever drafted the rules had probably never heard of them. I've never had any complaints about my long wire aerials or support structures.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is online now  
Old 6th May 2021, 12:48 pm   #5
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Here's an early ref. from 1925 stating 100ft:

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/ID...2100%20feet%22

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 1:14 pm   #6
kellymarie
Pentode
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Weymouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 134
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

I think that originally 100 feet maximum was chosen because it was believed that anything longer would somehow leave the next door houses in a sort of unwirelessed zone in other words they thought a long areal would absorb all the energy in that area
kellymarie is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 1:46 pm   #7
kalee20
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,061
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

I've heard of 100 feet as the maximum length permitted by the Radio Licence.

But now the receiving licence is abolished, I wonder if that still applies?

I guess that it might have been considered at the time of abolishment (late 1960's?), and dismissed as a non-issue, on the basis that since the introduction of licences in crystal-set days and the dropping in the 1960's, long-wire aerials had all but disappeared anyway owing to advances in RF amplification.
kalee20 is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 2:10 pm   #8
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,385
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Perhaps 100ft was chosen in the early days to limit the anti-social effects of mis-adjusted or mal-functioning TRFs as such sets would have been common then and by the 1960s this was no longer considered a significant concern?
turretslug is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 2:13 pm   #9
Cobaltblue
Moderator
 
Cobaltblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Exeter, Devon and Poole, Dorset UK.
Posts: 6,823
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

This is what RadioRadio has to say about it Page 29 of the Third edition.

On July 5th 1919, all pre-war licences were cancelled but
the Post Office did not start to replace these until October
21st 1919 when, under pressure from the wireless societies and
clubs, they announced that informal authority could now be
granted for the use of receivers only and amateurs could reclaim
their wireless apparatus confiscated by the Post Office during
the war. Accompanying this relaxation in restrictions, the
Experimenter’s Licence (for reception only) was introduced
at lOs.Od per annum. Applicants for this new licence had to
be of British nationality and had to produce a birth certificate to that effect.
They were first required to submit a description
of the apparatus they proposed to install, and if they sought
to use thermionic valves, a diagram had to be sent showing
the circuit layout. If any applicant wanted to buy complete
factory-built apparatus (the manufacture of which was still
controlled by official permit), he was required to give full
particulars of the equipment and the name and address of the
firm from whom he bought it. There were restrictions too on
the size of the aerial used, the length being limited to 100 feet
for a single stranded wire and 140 feet for a double or multistranded wire.

So this restriction seemed to be in part a hangover from WW1 and/or the GPO being ever so protective of their monopoly.

Cheers

Mike T
__________________
Invisible airwaves crackle with life or at least they used to
Mike T BVWS member.
www.cossor.co.uk
Cobaltblue is online now  
Old 6th May 2021, 2:41 pm   #10
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

So far as I can make out the 140ft length for the double or multiple wire is the total length of the wire or wires, the length of the antenna being a max. of 70ft in the case of a double wire antenna.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 2:55 pm   #11
Silicon
Nonode
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Coulsdon, London, UK.
Posts: 2,152
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

What is a 'single stranded wire'?

Is it a stranded wire in isolation from other wires or is it a wire made from a single strand?
Silicon is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 5:31 pm   #12
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

I think a single strand.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 6th May 2021, 5:57 pm   #13
Herald1360
Dekatron
 
Herald1360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK.
Posts: 16,528
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Which early aerials would have been made of like the overhead telephone wires of the day, along with several "egg" insulators, and a fancy lead in setup.
__________________
....__________
....|____||__|__\_____
.=.| _---\__|__|_---_|.
.........O..Chris....O
Herald1360 is offline  
Old 7th May 2021, 11:44 am   #14
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,814
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

I've an [unrestored] Marconiphone 292 RG [1934] plus the original instruction leaflet [both are in the North]. I'm pretty sure that it recommends an aerial length over 100'-possibly 130'.

Dave W
Bexhill


[I've still not come across another 292 anywhere.]
dave walsh is offline  
Old 7th May 2021, 1:58 pm   #15
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Quote:
Wire aerials aren't a permitted development as far as planning regulations are concerned.
The RBWM (Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead) planning bit of their website says "Aerials for ordinary radio and TV" are OK, I have never met an extraordinary radio wave!
 
Old 7th May 2021, 2:07 pm   #16
TonyDuell
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,191
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Well, you can have an 'extraordinary ray' in optics, in particular in double refraction, but I don't think that occurs at radio wavelengths.
TonyDuell is online now  
Old 7th May 2021, 2:15 pm   #17
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,801
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
But now the receiving licence is abolished, I wonder if that still applies?
The receiving licence has not actually been abolished. It's printed in as an addendum on the TV licence, and for people without TV licences, they are assumed to have been granted one as a freebie.

So you are still bound by the terms of a licence you may not even know you posessed.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is offline  
Old 7th May 2021, 3:05 pm   #18
Keith956
Heptode
 
Keith956's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 719
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
The receiving licence has not actually been abolished. It's printed in as an addendum on the TV licence, and for people without TV licences, they are assumed to have been granted one as a freebie.

Do you have a link to this, as nothing in the paperwork the TV licensing have sent me in the last 15 years makes any mention of a radio license, or any conditions about receiving aerials?
Keith956 is offline  
Old 7th May 2021, 3:52 pm   #19
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
Quote:
Wire aerials aren't a permitted development as far as planning regulations are concerned.
The RBWM (Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead) planning bit of their website says "Aerials for ordinary radio and TV" are OK, I have never met an extraordinary radio wave!
To quote "The Planning Porta"l:-

"Normal domestic TV and radio aerials do not need planning permission".

It doesn't define "normal" though and the accompanying pictures show just satellite dishes and UHF yagis.

https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/detached-house
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is online now  
Old 7th May 2021, 5:43 pm   #20
kalee20
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Lynton, N. Devon, UK.
Posts: 7,061
Default Re: Household aerial length limitaion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith956 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
The receiving licence has not actually been abolished. It's printed in as an addendum on the TV licence, and for people without TV licences, they are assumed to have been granted one as a freebie.

Do you have a link to this, as nothing in the paperwork the TV licensing have sent me in the last 15 years makes any mention of a radio license, or any conditions about receiving aerials?
Me too!

And it seems a bit hard to swallow, too - if somebody looks askance at a radio aerial I've erected, measures it, discovers it's 101 feet, they could say I'm in breach of the licence T's and C's I signed up to on my TV licence application form. But if I DON'T have a TV licence (which I actually don't!) then there's no record of me signing up to any T's and C's; I can't be in breach of my own non-existent agreement; and in these days of GDPR it's opt-in not opt-out.
kalee20 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:14 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.