"Columbia" brand radiogram: Who made it?

[SiriusHardware]

Spotted today in Sue Ryder near Skelton, North Yorkshire, a late sixties / seventies, probably transistorised stereo radiogram very much in the style of HMV units of the same period. Not in bad physical condition, although I tried to turn the deck and found it jammed solid so the deck at least needs attention. Even back in the early eighties when I did work on brown goods like this, I used to have to dismantle and regrease decks.

I worked on items like this for about five years and saw my fair share of Thorn units, but I don't remember this 'Columbia' brand. Who made those?

(I'm aware that 'Columbia' was also a prominent record label around that time - not sure if the branding was the same though.)

[usradcoll1]

Is it a US or Japanese issue?
In the US, Columbia records badged their radiograms with the name "Columbia."
The units made in Japan were badged "Nippon Columbia" including the old Columbia logo.
BTW, is the record deck a BSR? The grease they used was more like glue.
I almost ruined the plastic platter with penetrating oil. I finally used a bit of heat to free it up.
Dave, USradcoll1

[Sideband]

If it is an original 'Columbia' as sold in UK, I think it was a name used by one of the department stores. Not sure which one but if that is the case, it was probably made by Plessey.

If it is as late as you suggest, then it's probably Chinese and the name was just 'badge engineering'.

[Paul_RK]

I've never met a '60s/'70s Columbia radiogram, but the first four results I'm seeing from a Google image search for Columbia radiograms are from that period, and have to me a very Thorn-y look to them. I do have a Columbia radiogram, but it's from 1929, pre-dating even the EMI connection.

Paul

[Techman]

I worked on a Columbia radiogram for someone a few years ago and it had a single speed 78rpm EMI deck fitted. It would have been dated around 1950. I remember that the chassis was cut for older, larger valve bases, but was actually fitted with B9A bases, so a transitional model. I may even have a picture of it somewhere if I look hard enough.

[SiriusHardware]

I agree with Paul_RK that it looked rather Thorn, I was really expecting to see an HMV badge on it.

Attached, a found image of a very similar / identical unit, but the one in the image has a later BSR deck than the one fitted in 'my' example which I think has a BSR deck as well - I would say an earlier one - plainer, more curves / rounded corners on the tonearm and no silver line along the top of the arm.

[Techman]

I've found the pictures of the 'old' Columbia radiogram from 10 years ago:-

[Radio Wrangler]

Techman's photos are of a set from a relatively narrow period.

All-glass miniature valves had arrived, on the B8A base which got going in the early-middle fifties, but it isn't so late that microgroove records had arrived. It has a 78rpm only turntable.

It also pre-dates VHF/FM broadcasting.

The cabinet styling and that turntable make it look earlier than those valves say it is.

Quite an interesting set, from a period when a lot of changes were happening. Whoever bought it new was probably soon disappointed when microgroove records and FM radio came along. These sets were major purchases and a family would have to live with their choice for quite some time.

david

[dazzlevision]

Thorn/Ferguson had been making HMV and Marconiphone sets under licence from EMI since around 1957/8, when EMI ceased their in-house manufacture. This was initially done through a jointly owned company set up for the purpose: British Radio Corporation.

The Thorn/Ferguson made and Columbia branded sets were either made for EMI or EMI licensed the brand to Thorn for other reasons - perhaps for overseas sales?

[Edward Huggins]

From my experience of these, they were made by Thorn and were contemporaneous with the vinyl wrapped HMV, Marconiphone, Ultra, Ferguson branded units of the time. All used basic BSR Autochangers, similar flimsy PCB chassis and those ubiquitous 8" x 5" speakers. I think these were branded as such to sell through alternative UK outlets, typically Furniture Stores.

[barrymagrec]

The chassis looks EMI ish, the B8A valveholders look to be bodged into octal / B8G holes.

The mains transformer does not look EMI but possibly a replacement.

[kirstyd]

The controls are laid out exactly like the HMV /Marconiphone/Ferguson equivalent

[barretter]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

Techman's photos are of a set from a relatively narrow period.

All-glass miniature valves had arrived, on the B8A base which got going in the early-middle fifties, but it isn't so late that microgroove records had arrived. It has a 78rpm only turntable.



david

B8A is the technical name for rimlock valve holders. Rimlock valves like the ECC40 were certainly around by 1948. 1948 is also the year that American Columbia introduced the microgroove LP. They didn't arrive in the UK until 1950 (Decca), were very expensive and didn't become popular until the mid-1950s.

[SiriusHardware]

Originally Posted by kirstyd

The controls are laid out exactly like the HMV /Marconiphone/Ferguson equivalent

Kirsty, are you referring to the 'recent' (late sixties / early seventies) unit which was the original subject of the thread, or to Techman's older unit?

[barretter]

There was a Columbia Stereogram from the period in question (model no. 5396) made by the British Radio Corporation (part of Thorn) which has been discussed on this forum before. It uses the EMI Columbia "Magic Notes" logo. Presumably EMI had been acquired by, or were in partnership with, Thorn by this time.

[SiriusHardware]

Ah, this thread for example:

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=153130

The example in that thread has a deck more similar to the Sue Ryder example than the one in my found image in #6.

Anyway, my original question seems to have been answered. It does seem certain to be a Thorn, which was my original impression.

[kirstyd]

Originally Posted by SiriusHardware

Kirsty, are you referring to the 'recent' (late sixties / early seventies) unit which was the original subject of the thread, or to Techman's older unit?

yes i am referring to the late 60s model .We have one of these in one of our older people complexes .its used [before pandemic] regularly for playing 78s and big band dance music

[Techman]

Originally Posted by dazzlevision

Thorn/Ferguson had been making HMV and Marconiphone sets under licence from EMI since around 1957/8,

I think I would also add Alba to that list, too. I once had an Alba radiogram similar in style to the long, low gram shown in post #6, the radio panel looked exactly the same, although the lid opening was very different.

I think this thread will be a useful archive for anyone searching for Columbia radiogram information, as they do seem to be quite rare compared to the other brands. It would be interesting to see Paul_RK's 1929 model - well for me it would be, anyway.

[Techman]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

All-glass miniature valves had arrived, on the B8A base which got going in the early-middle fifties, but it isn't so late that microgroove records had arrived. It has a 78rpm only turntable.

It also pre-dates VHF/FM broadcasting.

Whoever bought it new was probably soon disappointed when microgroove records and FM radio came along.

Yes, I've often thought this regarding how the buyers must have felt when their expensive purchase became obsolete within only a year or two of buying it and it seems that a lot of people bought these grams from around 1947 to 1951(ish), perhaps a couple of years after recovering from the war and with a new optimism for the future.

I'd forgotten that the valves in that gram were rimlock eight pin and not nine pin until I looked at my pictures. I seem to remember now my memory has been jogged that there was something strange about that transformer maybe not being original, as it turned out it had shorted turns on the primary and had to be replaced - there's quite a story to the repair of that particular radiogram. It's still with the same person and still working, last I heard.

[Paul_RK]

Originally Posted by Techman

It would be interesting to see Paul_RK's 1929 model - well for me it would be, anyway.

Happy to oblige. I've owned it for quite a while without making any move toward restoring it to operation, which would require a little ingenuity as the missing output valve and rectifier are very unusual types: output a PX650, power triode with 6 volt heater, and if I remember rightly the rectifier has the oddity of an 8 volt heater (or was it 7.5?)

As the third picture shows, a narrow panel in front of the turntable can be removed to give access to the two HF valves: and the two whitish objects in photo 5 are indeed wired ceramic fuses.

Paul