Answer to a very old question. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

mackinl · 1st Apr 2011, 10:05 am

Hi, years ago 35 plus my parents had a TV but I was too young to know make or model. One day my dad said the television's broken and I remember saying what's wrong. He told me to stand well back then he switched it on the picture came on. It was a b/w set, the picture was fine and then the only thing I remember was a very loud and powerful electrical whipping. Can a member tell me the fault?

Thanks.

MALC SCOTT · 1st Apr 2011, 10:13 am

Sounds like the line output transformer breaking down or the EHT lead arcing out to chassis.

mackinl · 1st Apr 2011, 10:23 am

Thank you, for some reason this has haunted me for years. I became a mechanic but wish I had done T/V repair. Cheers.

MALC SCOTT · 1st Apr 2011, 11:42 am

I did TV repair, but wish I had become mechanic!!

Peter.N. · 1st Apr 2011, 12:15 pm

Could just have been damp, TVs used to arc all over the place when the temperature changed and caused condensation.

I was a TV engineer and also did a fair bit of mechanicing, I know which was least stressful.

Peter

murphyv310 · 1st Apr 2011, 1:49 pm

I like these comments. How about this one, there's not many TV repair shops left as folk don't get their tellies fixed now. There are loads of garages though full of faulty cars and the folk still pay big money to get them sorted.
I did the wrong thing in 1970 I should have been a motor mechanic

Peter.N. · 1st Apr 2011, 2:09 pm

The problem is that there is not much difference between being a TV engineer and mechanic now,with modern cars.

Peter

M0ALK Richard · 1st Apr 2011, 4:48 pm

As Peter.N. says it was probably damp. Did it live in your kitchen by any chance and when the cooking was going on was the place full of steam?

zooterman · 1st Apr 2011, 5:55 pm

There are no mechanics today, just blokes who fit new parts.

Sean Williams · 1st Apr 2011, 7:19 pm

Thanks Wally - never before has such a sweeping generalisation decimated 20 years of experience......

neon indicator · 8th Apr 2011, 10:35 pm

when I was a kid my dad watered the flower pot on top of colour TV and missed.
All the water went down inside TV back

It crackled horribly and was turned off. Much later we turned it on and it was fine.

davegsm82 · 11th Apr 2011, 12:27 pm

Little tale from the workbench,

a good few years ago we received a Ferguson 59cm thing, can't remember the model but had the ICC7 chassis. The customer was angling to have it scrapped so he could claim on his insurance and told us something had been accidentally spilled in the back. We immediately thought of the flowerpot and water problem but this wasn't it.

When we opened it up we found Yoghurt, and not a small amount either, it was all over the place, covering the board left to right but had thanfully missed the PSU. there was however evidence of arcing on the tube to the aquadag.

The customer was a bit of a pillock and we'd had difficulties with him before. So I made it my mission to get this thing going again. I removed the chassis and any other bits I could see covered in yoghurt were cleaned up, since the chassis was completely plastered in the stuff I decided there was only 1 thing for it. The shower.

Dropped the whole lot into the sink and blasted it with a shower head switched to the 'massage' setting (quite aggressive), which made short work of all the yoghurt and brought the chassis up beautifuly, it looked just like new! (these old fergies had a habit of acumulating inches of dust).

After a couple of days on the heater and 15 minutes blast with a hairdrier, we plugged it back in and waited for the bang.

The customer was MOST displeased when we called him and said your TV is ready to collect, I don't think we saw him again after that collection.

Dave.

neon indicator · 11th Apr 2011, 3:04 pm

I've rinsed or hosed stuff from large circuit boards to keyboards to phones. Usually a final quick rinse in Meths or IPA (water dissolves in Alcohol well) and then dry out for a while. One place I did R&D in mid 1980s used water wash to remove flux etc after wave solder.

Membrane keyboard with sherry was never 100% recovered, yet one with entire mug of coffee was. I think it "glued" some of the keys together.

Dave Moll · 13th Apr 2011, 11:54 am

Four off-topic posts have been deleted. Please limit posts to the subject in hand.

Hybrid tellies · 13th Apr 2011, 6:21 pm

That noise you heard was probably an EHT leak from the line output transformer, EHT lead or from the EHT connector to the final anode of the crt. We use to see quite a few problems like this back in my repair days working around Bath where many of those wonderful Georgian houses were inheritantly damp. You use to get a wonderful unique smell of ozone from these flashovers. There is the possibility that it could have been internal arcing within the tube which of course would not have the accompanying odour that you get with external flashovers.

1st Apr 2011, 10:05 am	#1
mackinl Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 47	Answer to a very old question. Hi, years ago 35 plus my parents had a TV but I was too young to know make or model. One day my dad said the television's broken and I remember saying what's wrong. He told me to stand well back then he switched it on the picture came on. It was a b/w set, the picture was fine and then the only thing I remember was a very loud and powerful electrical whipping. Can a member tell me the fault? Thanks. Last edited by Darren-UK; 1st Apr 2011 at 12:24 pm. Reason: FSK, FPK, GI.

1st Apr 2011, 10:13 am	#2
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Answer to a very old question. Sounds like the line output transformer breaking down or the EHT lead arcing out to chassis. __________________ Malc Scott

1st Apr 2011, 10:23 am	#3
mackinl Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 47	Re: Answer to a very old question. Thank you, for some reason this has haunted me for years. I became a mechanic but wish I had done T/V repair. Cheers. Last edited by Darren-UK; 1st Apr 2011 at 12:26 pm. Reason: As #1 and dequoted.

1st Apr 2011, 11:42 am	#4
MALC SCOTT Octode Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Willington, County Durham, UK. Posts: 1,499	Re: Answer to a very old question. I did TV repair, but wish I had become mechanic!! __________________ Malc Scott

1st Apr 2011, 12:15 pm	#5
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: Answer to a very old question. Could just have been damp, TVs used to arc all over the place when the temperature changed and caused condensation. I was a TV engineer and also did a fair bit of mechanicing, I know which was least stressful. Peter

1st Apr 2011, 1:49 pm	#6
murphyv310 Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 5,422	Re: Answer to a very old question. I like these comments. How about this one, there's not many TV repair shops left as folk don't get their tellies fixed now. There are loads of garages though full of faulty cars and the folk still pay big money to get them sorted. I did the wrong thing in 1970 I should have been a motor mechanic __________________ Cheers, Trevor. MM0KJJ. RSGB, GQRP, WACRAL, K&LARC. Member

1st Apr 2011, 2:09 pm	#7
Peter.N. Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK. Posts: 3,601	Re: Answer to a very old question. The problem is that there is not much difference between being a TV engineer and mechanic now,with modern cars. Peter

1st Apr 2011, 4:48 pm	#8
M0ALK Richard Tetrode Join Date: May 2008 Location: Huntingdon, UK. Posts: 78	Re: Answer to a very old question. As Peter.N. says it was probably damp. Did it live in your kitchen by any chance and when the cooking was going on was the place full of steam?

1st Apr 2011, 5:55 pm	#9
zooterman Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lampeter, Dyfed, Wales, UK. Posts: 369	Re: Answer to a very old question. There are no mechanics today, just blokes who fit new parts.

1st Apr 2011, 7:19 pm	#10
Sean Williams Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St.Ippolyts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire QRA IO91UW Posts: 3,520	Re: Answer to a very old question. Thanks Wally - never before has such a sweeping generalisation decimated 20 years of experience...... __________________ Engineers make things work and have spare bits when finished

8th Apr 2011, 10:35 pm	#11
neon indicator Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 1,183	Re: Answer to a very old question. when I was a kid my dad watered the flower pot on top of colour TV and missed. All the water went down inside TV back It crackled horribly and was turned off. Much later we turned it on and it was fine.

11th Apr 2011, 12:27 pm	#12
davegsm82 Heptode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Blyth, Northumberland, UK. Posts: 858	Re: Answer to a very old question. Little tale from the workbench, a good few years ago we received a Ferguson 59cm thing, can't remember the model but had the ICC7 chassis. The customer was angling to have it scrapped so he could claim on his insurance and told us something had been accidentally spilled in the back. We immediately thought of the flowerpot and water problem but this wasn't it. When we opened it up we found Yoghurt, and not a small amount either, it was all over the place, covering the board left to right but had thanfully missed the PSU. there was however evidence of arcing on the tube to the aquadag. The customer was a bit of a pillock and we'd had difficulties with him before. So I made it my mission to get this thing going again. I removed the chassis and any other bits I could see covered in yoghurt were cleaned up, since the chassis was completely plastered in the stuff I decided there was only 1 thing for it. The shower. Dropped the whole lot into the sink and blasted it with a shower head switched to the 'massage' setting (quite aggressive), which made short work of all the yoghurt and brought the chassis up beautifuly, it looked just like new! (these old fergies had a habit of acumulating inches of dust). After a couple of days on the heater and 15 minutes blast with a hairdrier, we plugged it back in and waited for the bang. The customer was MOST displeased when we called him and said your TV is ready to collect, I don't think we saw him again after that collection. Dave.

11th Apr 2011, 3:04 pm	#13
neon indicator Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Co. Limerick, Ireland. Posts: 1,183	Re: Answer to a very old question. I've rinsed or hosed stuff from large circuit boards to keyboards to phones. Usually a final quick rinse in Meths or IPA (water dissolves in Alcohol well) and then dry out for a while. One place I did R&D in mid 1980s used water wash to remove flux etc after wave solder. Membrane keyboard with sherry was never 100% recovered, yet one with entire mug of coffee was. I think it "glued" some of the keys together.

13th Apr 2011, 11:54 am	#14
Dave Moll Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK Posts: 6,133	Re: Answer to a very old question. Four off-topic posts have been deleted. Please limit posts to the subject in hand. __________________ Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)

13th Apr 2011, 6:21 pm	#15
Hybrid tellies Nonode Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: 1966-1976 Coverack in Cornwall and Helston Cornwall. 1976-present Bristol/Bath area. Posts: 2,967	Re: Answer to a very old question. That noise you heard was probably an EHT leak from the line output transformer, EHT lead or from the EHT connector to the final anode of the crt. We use to see quite a few problems like this back in my repair days working around Bath where many of those wonderful Georgian houses were inheritantly damp. You use to get a wonderful unique smell of ozone from these flashovers. There is the possibility that it could have been internal arcing within the tube which of course would not have the accompanying odour that you get with external flashovers. __________________ Simon BVWS member