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Old 15th Oct 2017, 3:54 pm   #171
GrimJosef
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oxfordshire, UK.
Posts: 4,310
Default Re: Audiophoolery. 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argus25 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimJosef View Post
... So in those circumstances how wrong is it to lie ?
Very wrong. Because a lie is practically always something that has some downstream destructive effects. Sometimes it is not obvious how it will. A lie could be one of the most well intentioned acts in the world, even set out to "help people" or make them feel better, but it often leads to trouble...because...someone believes it, and then acts on it and there is the problem.

People in the audio profession & business would be held in some regard by their non technical customers and asked for advice at times, there is a trust there. If the engineer or sales people push a fable, like the Emperors New Clothes, saying something is there, or some improvement, when its not, that trust is violated, regardless of whether the customer believes what they are told or not. Even if they feel happy about it and now think their stereo sounds better, it is wrong.
You make a distinct point below which deserves to be considered on its own. But with that exception I think we are now moving into the field of moral philosophy and, specifically, normative ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative_ethics. Most of the examples in this thread, including the issue which started it (cable burn-in), don't actually 'lead to trouble' or create 'downstream destructive effects' beyond (sometimes) parting the customer from their money without delivering the improvement they hoped for. The problem of customer dissatisfaction isn't confined to hi-fi, nor is it new, and over the millennia we have worked out remedies for it. So I think we're just left with the abstract 'right or wrong ?' discussion and the middle view seems to be that sometimes lying is unacceptable but sometimes it's OK (my friend introduces me to his wife, who's dressed up for an evening out, and he says "Doesn't she look great ?" and I say "Yes, she does" instead of "Well, not bad, but let's face it she's no oil painting" which might be most people's honest view). Each case needs to be decided on its own merits and views will differ. I'm afraid that's why I raised the question without venturing an answer ...

Quote:
Look at the results of what amounts to the marketing lies in audio components, claims of superior sonics from valves, cables, tube sockets, capacitors, resistors etc. Then downstream someone on this forum is trying to do a period correct restoration and goes to get a valve and finds its $200 because it has been deemed an audiophile type type with black plates and superior sonics. This is the price we pay for the dishonesty in the marketing that made someone feel better. I've even seen EF50s' sold as audiophile tubes.
This particular example of what we might call audiophoolery does involve negative consequences for some people. They have to be weighed against the positive consequences for other people. If the question of 'right or wrong ?' is difficult when there's no conflict of interest then it becomes even more difficult when there is one. You'd need the wisdom of Solomon to establish whose enjoyment of a rare valve is 'worth' the most ...

Cheers,

GJ
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Last edited by GrimJosef; 15th Oct 2017 at 4:05 pm.
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