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-   -   The end of physical media. (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=181774)

Paul_RK 12th Jul 2021 5:34 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by duncanlowe (Post 1389642)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicboduk (Post 1389520)
" I can open a 200 year old book as easily as one published last week, which is of course not the case with digital files."

Vic

To be fair, that's no quite true...

It's perfectly true of a number of 200, and even a few 300, year old books here, but, yes, the quality of materials used and the storage conditions have to be right for deterioration to be that slow. Early days yet with digital recordings, I doubt many of us will live long enough for playing a CD or reading an MP3 file to become difficult to arrange, but in both those cases the usual storage media are less than wholly dependable to last a few decades even when stored on a shelf in a dry and temperature-controlled environment.

Paul

GrimJosef 12th Jul 2021 6:17 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB (Post 1389637)
I have yet to us use a streaming service. I am unsure how they work in a situation where no Internet connection is available.

But if I did, will they deliver CD quality (i.e. uncompressed) data?

I have a number of Squeezebox 'Touch' streamers around the house and workshop, connected by wifi to my router. But I don't subscribe to a streaming service. I just use them to play the music files that I have ripped from my CD collection, which reside on my desktop computer's HDD.

The streamers need software, which could be downloaded for free, so an internet comnnection was needed to set the system up initially. But after that it would, in principle, run independently and indefinitely. A complication is that the streamers access the music files via the desktop machine's operating system (Windows) and very occasionally a consequence of a Windows update will be that I have to download an update of the streamer software too and an internet connection is needed for that. But it would have been needed for the Windows update in the first place.

The streamers will handle a number of different music file formats. These include FLAC, which is somewhat compressed but is lossless (that's what matters for quality) and which I use to store all my music. The streamers don't introduce any music information loss of their own. Each one's buffer seems more than adequate for dealing with any information-flow fluctuations caused by my wifi.

A downside is that Squeezebox were bought out by Logitech and after a short time they (Logitech) made the decision not to support the 'Touch' any more. I believe the software is now maintained by enthusiasts.

Cheers,

GJ

G6Tanuki 12th Jul 2021 6:18 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I guess it's all a matter of personal preference: in recent years I've really got to like the ability to type a couple of lines of lyrics into my phone and get offered several mixes of the track containing them, along with details of their different releases, what albums/singles they were on, how many they sold/their top100 placement in the UK and US, what movies the track was used in and what the band-members are doing today.

Try doing that with a wall of CDs/vinyl/cassettes/DVDs.

Equally, with books - their lack of a search-facility is annoying: I've in the past resorted to searching online for a particular bit-of-info to give me hints as to which books-I-own actually contain the full content.

OK, some think it's 'nice' to have shelves of books, but can you find the information you need in a hurry? And can you be sure the information is still correct? [that's the nice thing about the Internet RFC-documents - they come with 'supersedes' and 'obsoletes' so you don't find yourself working from outdated information].

As I'be opined previously, I don't want the burden of storing un-indexed content myself when I can summon it up from somewhere in Japan or the US or Finland at the stroke of a finger.

[Example: right now I'm listening to a version of Scooter's "Hyper! Hyper!" recorded at a gig somewhere in Belgium a decade back, which has never been released on any kind of physical media]

G6Tanuki 12th Jul 2021 6:30 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB (Post 1389637)
]But if I did, will they deliver CD quality (i.e. uncompressed) data?

"CD-quality" involves significant compression/expansion.... it's an ancient standard designed to be replayed on systems with what are now spectacularly-low in terms of processor-power.

FLAC or similar modern encoding standards can do a much better job, and the 'CPU horsepower' to decode it is dirt-cheap. The 'stuff' I have encoded here using FLAC@320Kbit/sec is rather good.

GrimJosef 12th Jul 2021 6:31 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki (Post 1389663)
... As I'be opined previously, I don't want the burden of storing un-indexed content myself when I can summon it up from somewhere in Japan or the US or Finland at the stroke of a finger ...

I'm sure things are improving, but a few years ago the reverse could also be true. I went to a hifi day put on by a chap whose only music source was his subscription to one of the big providers (Spotify, possibly ?). I'd taken a couple of CDs with me and asked if I could play the title track from the King General album Money Run Tings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTe-s23tc78. "Sorry" he said, "not on my streaming service". Hmmm. Then I asked for Chris Jones' Set 'Em Up Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hegzsIRTI. They didn't have that either. I wandered away thinking "Nul points ...".

Cheers,

GJ

emeritus 12th Jul 2021 6:43 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Older books were often printed using rag paper, which is pretty robust. I have inherited, or been given, a couple of 200-year-old-plus books where the paper is somewhat discoloured, but basically sound, and poor bindings can easily be repaired or replaced by hand using very simple equipment. I did a bookbinding evening class about 5 years ago and completely dismantled, re-sewed and re-bound a mid-victorian "Book of Common Prayer" that had been great great grandmother's that had spent the previous 40 years in a box in the loft.

I entirely agree with the second paragraph of #43. When I was a Patent Examiner, we were still using manual search files , with documents stored attached to cards in columns of drawers. You soon got to remember unusual circuit configurations, and, if someone asked if we had anything like a particular configuration, could often say something like, "Yes, in the third drawer down in the fifth column on the left". Searching for circuitry was usually predominantly visual, as it is difficult to search circuit topologies electronically. I don't know what they do now that everything is stored in computer memory

Paper is normally pretty durable as long as it is kept dry. I still have some computer programs written at college in the 1960's on punched cards and paper tape whose content can be read and transcribed manually (albeit tediously) without using an electronic reader. Retrieving more recent info from floppy disks, optical media, or SD cards can only be done if you have the necessary equipment.

Richard_FM 12th Jul 2021 9:13 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Depending on my listening time I often listen to playlists I've created on Itunes.

The longer ones are normally a few albums with a common theme music-wise, and the smaller ones individual songs on a theme.

jamesperrett 12th Jul 2021 10:33 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki (Post 1389668)
Quote:

Originally Posted by GMB (Post 1389637)
]But if I did, will they deliver CD quality (i.e. uncompressed) data?

"CD-quality" involves significant compression/expansion.... it's an ancient standard designed to be replayed on systems with what are now spectacularly-low in terms of processor-power.

FLAC or similar modern encoding standards can do a much better job, and the 'CPU horsepower' to decode it is dirt-cheap. The 'stuff' I have encoded here using FLAC@320Kbit/sec is rather good.

Seems to be much confusion here...

The 44.1kHz sample rate, 16 bit data recorded to CD has had no data compression applied before being mastered onto the disc. The data will have been encoded with additional error correction bits but that process is transparent to the user. What comes out is exactly the same as what goes in.

Flac is a form of lossless audio compression where the data can be stored in roughly half the space required by uncompressed audio data and the original data stream can be completely recovered when the data is decompressed. Flac doesn't have a set data rate as it depends somewhat on the material being compressed but CD quality audio would be the equivalent of just over 700kb/s.

Numbers like 320kb/s are normally used by lossy compression schemes - in fact 320kb/s is the highest bit rate normally used by mp3.

There are streaming services that will serve CD quality lossless data (I think even Apple are now offering such a service) and even one or two that claim better than CD quality. Whether it is worth going for a better than CD quality service is debateable as the vast majority of the files they would be supplied with are 16 bit, 44.1kHz files.

jamesperrett 12th Jul 2021 10:42 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimJosef (Post 1389669)
I went to a hifi day put on by a chap whose only music source was his subscription to one of the big providers (Spotify, possibly ?). I'd taken a couple of CDs with me and asked if I could play the title track from the King General album Money Run Tings https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTe-s23tc78. "Sorry" he said, "not on my streaming service". Hmmm. Then I asked for Chris Jones' Set 'Em Up Joe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hegzsIRTI. They didn't have that either. I wandered away thinking "Nul points ...".

It was probably a specialist service supplying lossless audio as both of those artists are on Spotify with hundreds of thousands of plays in the case of the King General track. Spotify don't offer lossless streaming at the moment although I wouldn't be surprised to see this change in the future.

JohnBG8JMB 13th Jul 2021 12:02 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I THINK IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU LISTEN TO.

I don't listen to [ducks behind the crenellations] pop music. I think that it is essentially commercial ephemera, repeated ad nauseum on commercial radio and BBCR1. If you can call it music. But I have 100s of classical and jazz CDs, with sleeve notes, libretti, etc; some of historic performances. Which do get played. AFAIK, this sort of music is not available as steaming stuff; and why should I waste time tying myself to a computer to buy, download and store and then replay the music at the dubious quality of computer audio?

Nor am I interested in head/earphones- decent amp/speakers/comfortable chair please!

But each to his own.

Cheers
John

Oldcodger 13th Jul 2021 10:06 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Possibly Sainsbury are only stocking what they sell most of, and two things would put me off buying CDs there. Little choice ( as I find that a pack of CD's ,once the plastic is off ) needs to be stored properly). Hence, I only buy CDs in small quantities. And Sainsbury only stock CD in packs of 10 or more. Price. They are far more expensive than other High street competitors. DVDs also fall into these two categories. CDs I can see falling in demand as the capacity (storage ) falls. Then there's demand. It's about cash. Why pay circa £10- 20 for a large pack of CD/DVD, when I can buy ( possibly infrior quality) from an other store for a lot less. Burn whatever they call "music" to a DVD, and play it for the time it takes to become out of date in whatever source they choose, and then at that proce it's "throwabay" .

GrimJosef 13th Jul 2021 10:43 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBG8JMB (Post 1389775)
... I don't listen to [ducks behind the crenellations] pop music. I think that it is essentially commercial ephemera, repeated ad nauseum ... If you can call it music. But I have 100s of classical and jazz CDs ...

Mozart was pretty popular/commercial in his day ;) ... although it seems he spent his money as easily as he earned it and ended up dying in some financial difficulty at a relatively young age (very 'rock and roll', as they say).

When it comes to things being ephemeral, we are lucky to have as much of J S Bach's work as we do, given the minor regard it seems it was held in before the 'Bach Revival' took hold, well into the 19th century. This, despite the number of musical children he had, most of whom don't seem to have taken much trouble to preserve his compositions !

Cheers,

GJ

Radio Wrangler 14th Jul 2021 12:41 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Joseph Haydn was shamelessly commercial, quickly knocking off symphonies in bulk to keep the money coming in. Most didn't sound much different to the others. A few were outstanding. The Stock, Aitken and Waterman of his day.

David

barretter 14th Jul 2021 9:42 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler (Post 1390037)
Joseph Haydn was shamelessly commercial, quickly knocking off symphonies in bulk to keep the money coming in. Most didn't sound much different to the others. A few were outstanding. The Stock, Aitken and Waterman of his day.

David

Most of Haydn's music was paid for by patrons until late in his career. In any case any one of his symphonies is much more musically interesting than 99% of the productions of the pop music industry, particularly Stock, Aitken and Waterman.The same goes for Mozart and Bach.

Radio Wrangler 14th Jul 2021 11:58 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Sorry, I was trying to make the point that a number of classical composers wrote music on an industrial scale, under pressure to keep turning out stuff for their patrons on a regular basis. Amongst this there were special works, the ones they wanted to do out of their own interest. The sheer amount of Bach's output for the organ is staggering, but a lot of it isn't very special compared to the better pieces... the ones I'll bother to learn and practice.

Modern pop pap isn't anything like as interesting as most of the classical stuff, and on top of it all, the recordings are compressed into less than 3dB dynamic range.

There seems to be a modern formula, and very very few dare stray from it. The few that do mustn't be overlooked. They are the only hope left.

David

Uncle Bulgaria 14th Jul 2021 12:09 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I don't think that's quite accurate, David - the modern formula isn't too different from the Bach or Haydn formula (or what's put GAP to the wall) - find what sells and rehash it. However, the chart formula of big sales means that end of things is overexposed, not that musical creativity has been funnelled and limited since the classical era.

A quick trip to Bandcamp will show hundreds of thousands of imaginative artists of all genres, who, to bring things back on topic a little, will often be releasing on physical media! I've bought new CDs, LPs, 7"s and cassettes on there recently. The website tells me that yesterday 57,844 records were purchased there.

barretter 15th Jul 2021 2:50 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria (Post 1390141)
I don't think that's quite accurate, David - the modern formula isn't too different from the Bach or Haydn formula (or what's put GAP to the wall) - find what sells and rehash it.

That's just nonsense.

GrimJosef 15th Jul 2021 5:00 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barretter (Post 1390457)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria (Post 1390141)
I don't think that's quite accurate, David - the modern formula isn't too different from the Bach or Haydn formula (or what's put GAP to the wall) - find what sells and rehash it.

That's just nonsense.

We're all entitled to our opinions, surely ? I didn't agree with your opinion here

Quote:

Originally Posted by barretter (Post 1390085)
... In any case any one of his symphonies is much more musically interesting than 99% of the productions of the pop music industry ...

but I didn't dismiss it.

Getting back to the original topic, I see the parliamentary DCMS committee has taken a dim view of practices in the streaming industry https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57838473, presumably compared with artists' revenues back when physical media were dominant.

Cheers,

GJ

ToneArm 15th Jul 2021 10:17 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I'm happy with my records, the way they sound, feel, look etc. The soundtrack of my life was/is on my records and I like being in the clutter of my collection,

I use streaming as well but mainly music while I work or in the background when people come round. For me it is usurping radio more than physical media. I've gained quite a few new artists from the "recommended for you" selections, surprising how quickly the streamer has learned my tastes. A bit chilling how easily the sophistication of me could be cracked open! What else do they know??
Cheers
Glyn

Junk Box Nick 16th Jul 2021 11:16 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Over the years the demise of more ‘traditional’ technologies, or perhaps that should be ‘preceding’ technologies since in the great scheme of things they are all fairly recent, in favour of some emerging technology has been regularly predicted. Cinema was going to be supplanted by TV; and the end of the book has been predicted for decades, yet there they are – even on the shelves of Sainsbury’s. There are as many books being produced as ever was, perhaps many more.

I have accumulated many vinyl records, CDs, DVDs and books over the years. Admittedly there have been phases where I binged a little. Records in my youth, and CDs when the records I hadn’t got the spending power in my youth to buy came out on CD. It’s fair to say that my CD buying now is down to the very occasional. A classical box set of CBSO recordings is, I think, my only purchase this year. Basically, I have pretty much got all those I want, and I do listen to many frequently. Others may have had fewer plays but I like the action of being able to browse along my shelves and pick something out I haven’t heard for ages. This browsing can be random and the very randomness is due to the presence of a physical object. With an LP there is the experience of the packaging, liner notes, and the action of playing a collection of the order intended. This is an experience diminished to some extent with CDs and gone with online listening. I am less inclined to scroll through menus and contents on a computer or whatever and the serendipitious activity wouldn’t occur at all if I had give some command to a listening device in the room. I also like the idea that all I need is a player and an electricity supply to hear them. No worries about flaky internet connections or wi-fi traffic.

Books are even better with, at a basic level, available daylight (plus now a decent pair of spectacles) all that is required for me to use that technology. As with CDs I like to browse the shelves and frequently revisit my books; plus, beyond pulp fiction, the tactile and visual sensation of a nicely printed book cannot be replicated on a screen. In these current days I am enjoying my books more than ever. I have spent too much of my life in front of a screen so am glad to be away.

My collection of DVDs is smaller but I have found some gems in charity shops and in the case of classic films and series do tend to get more than one outing – and as with CDs and books the random browsing applies.

I also like the fact that physical items, if original editions or close to original, are of their period and are as they were intended to be produced. We live in a time where much revision is taking place and modern versions, especially those available online may be edited through a modern prism of sensibilities. (Though a discussion of the value or otherwise of such revisions is strictly not for here.)

As for digital storage, I have many photographs, etc., stored on drives. The ‘all the eggs in one basket’ worries me, especially as drives have got bigger and I now have several back-ups of each. When I have found the occasional CD that has failed I am comforted that at least it is only one whereas a failed drive with years of material is a disaster.

Finally, having been an early adopter of much technology, I have come to a point where I prefer to keep things simple. My vinyl, CDs, DVDs and books can be enjoyed using equipment I have had for years, in some cases decades, away from the rat race of constantly upgrading technology and programmed obsolesence.

Ultimately, I recognise that it will all be obsolete; but then so will I.

agardiner 16th Jul 2021 12:13 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Junk Box Nick (Post 1390642)

Finally, having been an early adopter of much technology, I have come to a point where I prefer to keep things simple. My vinyl, CDs, DVDs and books can be enjoyed using equipment I have had for years, in some cases decades, away from the rat race of constantly upgrading technology and programmed obsolesence.

Ultimately, I recognise that it will all be obsolete; but then so will I.

Amen to that!

barretter 17th Jul 2021 2:59 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimJosef (Post 1390494)
Quote:

Originally Posted by barretter (Post 1390457)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Bulgaria (Post 1390141)
I don't think that's quite accurate, David - the modern formula isn't too different from the Bach or Haydn formula (or what's put GAP to the wall) - find what sells and rehash it.

That's just nonsense.

We're all entitled to our opinions, surely ? I didn't agree with your opinion here

Quote:

Originally Posted by barretter (Post 1390085)
... In any case any one of his symphonies is much more musically interesting than 99% of the productions of the pop music industry ...

but I didn't dismiss it.



GJ

What Uncle Bulgaria said about Bach and Haydn wasn't expressed as an opinion but as a fact. It's not true.
I expressed my opinion about contemporary pop music vis-a-vis any Haydn symphony. Am I not entitled to?

GrimJosef 17th Jul 2021 6:45 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Uncle Bulgaria started with the words "I don't think", so I assumed he was going on to talk about what he thought i.e. his opinion.

I did read the bit where you stated "... any one of his symphonies is much more musically interesting ..." (my bold). I can't find the bit where you said that that was just your opinion. But I knew it had to be, because if it was a hard fact then everyone, including my pop-loving teenage nieces and nephews, would have to agree with it, and I'd bet my pension that they don't ;D. So I did call it an opinion, as you just have, and of course you're absolutely entitled to it :thumbsup:.

Cheers,

GJ

Uncle Bulgaria 17th Jul 2021 7:06 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimJosef (Post 1390919)
Uncle Bulgaria started with the words "I don't think", so I assumed he was going on to talk about what he thought i.e. his opinion.

Just what I intended, GJ. I have no intention of starting an argument, though an exchange of different views is indeed welcome! :thumbsup:

All composers have always been trying to find patronage or the big hit to put bread on the table, so much was, and is, what we might think of as hack work. That doesn't mean it doesn't have value, or that certain transcendental works haven't outlived their purpose and patronage to become universal.

However, I think it's interesting that a lot of music being released today (on a variety of physical media) is purely artistic rather than commercial - if one discounts the charts and their scientific hook-writing - done by people in their bedrooms and released without a record label or significant outlay. I don't think that's been the case nearly so much in the past.

I find much of the classical repertoire leaves me cold, though I enjoy the Early Music Show, and certainly prefer Graham Fitkin to Mozart. Recently Swedish punk has been occupying my record player, as I found the exuberance, loose and lashed-up nature of it a wonderful tonic during the pandemic. I doubt anyone will write retrospectives about ShitKid, but their music really hit the spot for me recently, and the record covers are marvellous!

ms660 17th Jul 2021 8:26 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I agree with Uncle B.

I have had a Deutsche Grammophon recording of David & Igor Oistrach's performance in Bach's Violin Concerto since I don't know when, probably 1970 (ish) when I was just a young lad (Into Blues, Stax, Atlantic and Motown???) I've always found it sounded very musical, full and inspiring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmo8SDQNCDA

But broken down to simple riffs it sounds less so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_AmMYo95e0

All very complimentary just like it's always been.

What I'm trying to say is it's the repeating of the simple stuff in a favourable order that gets the hits and Bach and the like were no exception.

Lawrence.

Trevor 17th Jul 2021 9:25 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I was broken hearted about 10 rears ago when a cd rasterman vibrations by Bob Marley failed The lp version still exists On talking with with data colleagues ias informed that Cd were and are not considered as permanent storage medium
Trev

murphyv310 18th Jul 2021 8:16 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
We often bang on about MP3 and other forms of digital recordings that are lossy and they dont sound good or artifacts can be heard.
I find this at times quite hypocritical as so many of us have hearing problems anyway and are not able to hear the range the human ear can resolve.
It you suffer from tinnitus or have restricted top end like me (9Khz tops) then you are not able to enjoy the music properly in the first place no matter the medium it's stored on.
I find MP3 fine for my limited hearing as I do AM radio.
Perhaps we should all take hearing tests first.

llama 18th Jul 2021 8:51 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
There is still a place for physical media even in such highly-automated places as radio stations. In the local stations I've worked at over the past 25-odd years the CD has always been a sort of lingua-Franca in amongst the server-based tunes, vinyl, carts, minidisks. There always seems to be a CD machine for a new release, a specialist music show, music a guest brings in - that sort of ad-hockery.

I also find making a "mix-tape" onto a CD is great for sharing with family. I'm particularly keen on avoiding non-original recordings, even when the re-make is by the original artist. One of the streaming services I subscribe to has way too many re-makes for my liking - it also has playback levels that are all over the place.

When an artist releases an album (generally talking CD here) there is a certain flow to the tracks - it's part of the original creative process. I find that selecting a CD or even vinyl LP maintains that flow, especially when tracks flow into each other like Abbey Road and Out Of The Blue.

As for playback quality of e.g. MP3 - I agree with the above, for my own listening. I have very limited HF and have had tinitus for years. Still loving the music though!

Graham

G6Tanuki 18th Jul 2021 1:31 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by llama (Post 1391013)
I also find making a "mix-tape" onto a CD is great for sharing with family. I'm particularly keen on avoiding non-original recordings, even when the re-make is by the original artist. One of the streaming services I subscribe to has way too many re-makes for my liking - it also has playback levels that are all over the place.
As for playback quality of e.g. MP3 - I agree with the above, for my own listening. I have very limited HF and have had tinitus for years. Still loving the music though!

Graham

I tend to be the other way round: I positively enjoy the whole remix-experience - specially when it involves an artist remixing something rather outside their usual repertoire [a rap-artist remixing Enya!]

Quite a bit of my digital-music collection is actually playlists consisting of the same track as remixed/sampled by 10 or so different artists in different styles.

I also like the whole thing where an artist releases half a dozen versions of a track: the original version (which is the one most people will know about) a dub remix, an extended remix, a vocal-trance remix, a dance remix, a chillout-remix etc. - and being able to search/listen online gets me access to all these variants (many of which have never been officially released in the UK on any kind of physical media).

"Reworked" music - classical performed on modern instruments - is another genre I'm particularly fond of. Wendy Carlos's version of Beethoven's Ninth, or Isao Tomita's version of the Firebird for example. I ponder what 'classical' composers would have been able to achieve if they'd not been constrained by instruments-of-their-era and had access to modern synthesizers, mixing-desks etc!

In terms of hearing the music on different media and the compromises involved, I have profound hearing-loss [something like 50dB down] below 300Hz as the result of an explosion - but my hearing is still good up to 18KHz. I like my treble-boost!

Radio Wrangler 18th Jul 2021 4:03 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki (Post 1391073)
Isao Tomita's version of the Firebird for example.

Utterly, utterly, wonderful. Anyone who's never heard it is likely to have a nice surprise, no matter what their preferred genre.

Tomita's synthesised whistling is rather special too.

David

G6Tanuki 18th Jul 2021 8:09 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Tomita's 1985 rework of RVW's The Lark Ascending [on "The Mind Of The Universe"] is also deeply captivating.

Listen from 18 minutes in - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7l0Qo8_8i8

jamesperrett 19th Jul 2021 12:01 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 1390960)
I was broken hearted about 10 rears ago when a cd rasterman vibrations by Bob Marley failed The lp version still exists On talking with with data colleagues ias informed that Cd were and are not considered as permanent storage medium
Trev

A genuine commercially produced music CD shouldn't fail (apart from a few dating from the late 80's which had a known manufacturing defect and were eligible for free replacement). CD-R's are a little more delicate but I have good quality discs here that are over 25 years old and still work fine. It sounds like you may have mistakenly bought a poor quality CD-R bootleg. Most of the tales of data loss with CD-R have been down to poor quality discs or poorly stored discs (and a well known brand name like TDK or Maxell is no guarantee of quality).

stevenkw2t 19th Jul 2021 7:51 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I know we have been talking about audio and video content here but a domain where physical media is surviving is games. I noted that when the Playstation 5 was released it contains a DVD player and there are still plenty of gamers who prefer to own the physical disc over the right to only download the game.

Nickthedentist 19th Jul 2021 9:46 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
OTOH, my kids were recently bought a Nintendo Switch gaming thing. The games purchased for them either came on a little cartridge with contacts (presumably some kind of flash memory), or as an online download... though you did get sent an empty box with all the cover artwork etc. in the post!

llama 21st Jul 2021 3:06 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
When I wrote "remakes" I wasn't talking about an artist's own (or sanctioned) remix. It's their track they can do what they want with it. My own son has done some remixes on his tunes and also handed the masters to other producers to work on - in one case a 5/4 track ended up as a beaty 4/4. I mean the remakes like when Virgin got Roy Orbison into the studio to lay down new recordings of his Greatest Hits. The spokesman claimed they were "note-perfect" (so that makes it OK?). They grate on my ears. Another is the version of Sultans of Swing as played by GHR. I have a Chubby Checker CD I've had to add a post-it note to to make sure I don't air the ones that are remakes. Seeing DDD on a CD for a '50s/'60s/'70s hit is a giveaway and I regret the absence of these markings. At least on a physical 45 you get the date on the label.

I think the online remixes issue rather makes my point neatly: when Radio Free Wiltshire invites you to Nadder Island Disks and asks "Mr Tanuki, or may I call you G6(?), what is your favourite Enya track?" they don't want "well if you go to www.enyaremixes.com/f786pakje8yfd9 and select the 4th one down, they'd much rather hear "Well I've burnt it onto this CD-R for convenience"!

Finally, for now, I'm surprised no-one's mentioned the BBC promotional feature concerning licence-fee payment by SO or DD where the chap says "I'm keeping the CDs" and she says "On your bike". Even I thought she'd more likely say "You're welcome to them, I've got them all ripped onto my cloud-based storage".
Graham

dave walsh 21st Jul 2021 6:59 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
The "reel" impact of streaming "services is evident in the sense that many people are already derogatory or disbelieving that anyone would still want the hardware bulky type equipment to listen, as opposed to a computer or phone. It boils down to whether you want a sense of independence in a way. If the Internet is suddenly unavailable everything it supports is gone! There's no alternative resource really. Having a radio may become rare but wrist watches didn't disappear-quite the opposite.

Dave W

Nuvistor 21st Jul 2021 7:24 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Some streaming services allow downloads to listen off line, no doubt they have DRM so if the account is closed those files will disappear.
Loss of internet may not mean loss of content for a certain length of time.

Not that it affects me, £10 or so a month is too expensive, I donít spend £120 a year on CDís or DVDís.

Junk Box Nick 21st Jul 2021 10:54 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Agree with Dave and Frank

There is a move now to making you rent everything. This guarantees them a regular income so you can’t blame firms for moving that way. This started with a lot of software but when everything is digital it makes it so easy – however, when you had the disks you were still only buying a licence.

I have some old software on an old machine but the later upgrades ‘phoned home’ every so often and one day they phoned home and home flicked the off switch. This wasn't a big problem for me as the limited work it was doing – indeed continues to do – could be done with an earlier edition that wasn’t so clever. Just as well I kept all those old disks!

What Dave said reminded my of my old mom: “Show your independence” she’d say when as a kid I got too involved with someone/folk. I’ve striven for as much independence as I can manage ever since.

dave walsh 21st Jul 2021 10:57 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Well that's true I suppose Frank but again, you're subject to someone else deciding whether or not and for what period, you can hang on to the content. Even an archive can suddenly not be available. Others have pointed out that the hard copy recording eg LP or CD, might contain info not available on-line! The Internet is certainly a great research resource in itself but every silver lining has a CLOUD [pun intended]. Wait till your ATM is disabled because you have the wrong view and there's no cash any more :( I think I would have got on with your mother Nick. I'm sometimes, falsely, mistaken for a conspiracist but it's just a simple reality. Mobile phones were, originally, never expected to be the all "consuming" emotional support, income generating devices that they are at present. Another recent thread, about the early servicing industry, refers to people being suicidal when the TV wasn't working!
Substitute the mobile, often the new TV viewing [and everything else] device!

Dave W

dave walsh 23rd Jul 2021 11:29 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Well now! Further to my outburst on Wednesday:D, see the last five minutes of Friday's News Night with Doug Pullman talking about reviving HMV and collecting Vinyl [also applicable to CD's and DVD's].
The presenter had no idea. He just downloads I suppose! See also the thread by electronic skip "HMV in administration 28/12/18" and my comments at post 97!

Dave W

Cobaltblue 24th Jul 2021 9:36 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dave walsh (Post 1391866)
Having a radio may become rare but wrist watches didn't disappear-quite the opposite.

Dave W

True wrist watches have become something of an accessory but many people that includes most of work colleagues and my wife wear smart watches which allow them to see and send messages, their calorie burn, listen to music as well as show the time.

Many would not wear just a watch.

Cheers

Mike T

russell_w_b 24th Jul 2021 10:14 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue (Post 1392485)

Many would not wear just a watch.

A 'smart' watch is only smart if it has electricity. Fat lot of good having a 'smart' watch if you're off in the wild for a few days.

I wear a Seiko automatic with a 21-jewel movement and have done for years. No electricity needed to tell the time. If I've to fit a link into the bracelet to get it on my wrist, then I'm getting too heavy and need more exercise. If I've to remove one when it slides about on my wrist, I need more grub. That's smart enough for me. :D

When I was a teenager, we all couldn't wait to ditch our old wind-ups and get our hands on the new-fangled quartz watches that kept time 'to the second'. Now accurate time is so cheap and freely available that mechanical watches have made a comeback.

The irony being that many low-end yet relatively highly accurate mechanical 'common man' wristwatches rely on precision electronic timing both for manufacturing and setting up.

Talking of physical media, photographic film is still being manufactured, improved and developed (NPI) for use by the likes of me. Long may it last! I'll get my sheet of negatives out of an A4 file when required and scan them on whatever the latest scanning technology or digital sensor has to offer, rather than be bullied into curating them, at cost, as a string of ones and zeros onto some cloud or other, or on a HDD.

Cobaltblue 25th Jul 2021 1:07 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by russell_w_b (Post 1392495)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue (Post 1392485)

Many would not wear just a watch.

A 'smart' watch is only smart if it has electricity. Fat lot of good having a 'smart' watch if you're off in the wild for a few days.

If you are indeed out in the wilds you might need the built in Compass and GPS neither of which need internet. And it runs for up 5 days. If you're more serious than that you're going to need more than an ordinary watch. Many of my colleagues who climb mountains and things (why would you do that) carry lightweight means to power their Tech.

Fat lot of good being on Dartmoor in the winter when the Fog descends with just your Seiko. You're Going to need a Map and a Compass just to get back to the car.

Cheers

Mike T

GrimJosef 25th Jul 2021 10:56 am

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue (Post 1392661)
... Fat lot of good being on Dartmoor in the winter when the Fog descends with just your Seiko. You're Going to need a Map and a Compass just to get back to the car ...

I can vouch for that from personal experience, albeit on the North York Moors. The normal way of crossing, west to east, the 3-mile wide bog on Rosedale Moor is to fix on Shunner Howe on the horizon and head straight for that. Not much use if the visibility's <100yds though. I needed a combination of electronic (GPS, to tell me where I was) and physical (OS map and mag compass, to tell me where to go) media to get myself out of that one. The GPS unit claimed to have an inbuilt compass, but its performance was poor.

Cheers,

GJ

Paul_RK 25th Jul 2021 1:26 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I've not been tempted to revert from buying CDs back to vinyl to any extent, reluctant though I was to make the switch in '88-'89 when releases I wanted to hear started to be CD-only. I've been very happy, though, to ditch battery-consuming watches in favour of a mechanical Vostok Komandirskie, still in production in Tatarstan after WWII evacuation from Moscow and available for around £30 inclusive of shipping costs. Not an optional accessory for me if I'm out of the house and care to know the time, nothing else I have on my person would be able to tell me it.

Paul

dave cox 26th Jul 2021 2:01 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
I want to 'OWN' media, but I don't count having the right to stream it as OWNING it. This is quite popular now but you are tied to a contract with a vendor that may go out of existence! An addition consideration is that of the 'streaming client' which you will be forced to use and the equipment you will need to own to use that client, and keep it up to date.
Quite by accident (it was free), I found myself owning streaming rights to a 'big screen movie' from one particular streaming vendor. This vendor was taken over by another vendor, and later, that vendor was bought by yet another vendor! And that wasn't the end of it, I think netflix was the 4th owner! The chain of emails, platform logins, transfer details, the different devices needed and new contracts was utterly laughable :) It was a real dog of a movie so I never watched more than the 1st few minutes in any case, but the potential issues were very clear!
I'm happy to download and store locally, but only if it comes without DRM, in its current forms. Otherwise I will continue to buy CDs and extract the media myself. I imagine quite a lot of my CDs have NEVER been played (but ripped)!

dc

DRM = digital rights management

SiriusHardware 26th Jul 2021 10:51 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Someone mentioned computer games - it has unfortunately been the case, going back as far as the Xbox 360 and PS3, that many games which come as a hard copy on optical on disc nevertheless 'phone home' to a server to verify your right to run them (they may for example be licensed to be 'installed' on only one XBOX 360 at a time). When it gets to the point where there is no longer a server for them to phone home to, they may well simply refuse to work any more in spite of our having both original media and the hardware to play on.

SWMBO and I have a load of old games primarily on the XBOX (original) and PS2 and there was none of that nonsense going on then so we can expect to keep playing our favourite offline games on those formats for as long as the discs and consoles keep working, but I am less certain about some of the titles we play on the newer consoles. Certainly a lot of the popular multiplayer games have already gone down when the game manufacturer has taken down the server which connected all the players together.

agardiner 27th Jul 2021 2:45 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Really loving this thread. Despite just about remaining on topic, there are so many tangents that keep appearing!

As for the end of physical media - the current owners of HMV are investing in new stores this year, so I think there will be physical stuff to buy for some time yet.

Trevor 27th Jul 2021 3:57 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Why cannot a retailer operate a download centre you chooses your music your format and then the retailer burns a cd or records a tape cuts a record you could even better have a compilation done
every one is happy no waste
New business format a down load centre !!!
people like me who enjoys having a format would be happy

Trev
Trev

electronicskip 27th Jul 2021 5:54 pm

Re: The end of physical media.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor (Post 1393291)
Why cannot a retailer operate a download centre you chooses your music your format and then the retailer burns a cd or records a tape cuts a record you could even better have a compilation done
every one is happy no waste
New business format a down load centre !!!
people like me who enjoys having a format would be happy

Trev
Trev

Actually in Japan they used to run a similar system for video games.
The Famicom Disk system circa 1986.
You could go into a Videogame shop, purchase a disk and then download a game onto it via a disk writer kiosk
Then once you got bored with it ,you went back into the store and download/copied a new game onto it.
I have a Famicom Disk unit here with a few games on the floppy type disc.


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