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-   -   Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=198071)

Trifocaltrev 5th Feb 2023 11:14 pm

Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
1 Attachment(s)
I was shocked to find this rewireable plug with no metal earth pin on a facial steamer/inhaler that my Niece recently bought. Is a plastic earth pin allowed on a rewireable plug, bearing in mind that it could be connected in a later life to a device that needs an earth, by someone who has little electrical knowledge.

Trevor.

paulsherwin 5th Feb 2023 11:21 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
I believe plastic 'shutter opener' pins are only standards compliant on moulded plugs.

stevehertz 5th Feb 2023 11:35 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Aren't all modern electrical goods that don't have a moulded on plug made in such a way that an earth connection is not necessary? Hence the wireable plug with a plastic 'earth' pin. There's nothing to stop someone using it in an inappropriate manner, but the same can be said for lots of other fittings still in circulation such as plugs with all metal live and neutral pins. We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment. And yes, I realise that that's not the case. At the end of the day there's nothing to stop anyone in a place where there's an electrical supply from misusing or abusing it.

paulsherwin 5th Feb 2023 11:37 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
It's in the current revision of BS1363.

Trifocaltrev 6th Feb 2023 12:41 am

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Many modern appliances have metal frames and need the earth pin. As a rewireable plug can be used on such an appliance I am sure that it is a against the BS1363 regulations. If rewireable plugs were permitted without a metal earth pin you would be able to buy them no doubt. This is the only example I have seen in nearly 65 years that I have ever seen.

VT FUSE 6th Feb 2023 1:34 am

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
What a truly hideous plug top! A new one to me and as a person who routinely re-uses quality plug tops, quite shocking to think of someone else choosing to not earth connect some device requiring such.
Mike

hamid_1 6th Feb 2023 1:52 am

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
As I understand it, all household appliances sold in the UK since 1994 are required to be supplied with a fitted 13A BS1363 plug, but not necessarily a moulded one. If the appliance is double-insulated, the earth pin can be made of plastic, certainly on moulded plugs. So far, so good. The issue here is "What if the supplied plug is re-used?"

A long time ago I had a fluorescent desk lamp with a fitted plug which had screw terminals and could be opened. However the cord grip was moulded into the appliance flex. If the flex was replaced there would be no cord grip. There was a label on the plug saying it was not re-usable, presumably for that reason. I wonder if there was a note in the instructions with this appliance, or on a card attached to the plug with words saying the plug must not be reused?

As far as I can see, it's safe to use as supplied. If someone removes the plug and fits it to another appliance in error, surely the manufacturer can't be responsible for that, especially if they've stated somewhere that you shouldn't. After all, someone could cut off a moulded plug with a length of 2-core flex and attach it to something else in a dangerous manner (I've seen it done) - the manufacturer can't be responsible for that, either.

It may be illegal to sell loose plugs with a plastic earth pin (certainly I've never seen any for sale) but technically this is a fitted plug, presumably not to be re-used. I think that's what the supplier will argue. Though I agree, there is a potential for misuse, it's almost impossible to make something 100% foolproof. Even if the plug had a metal earth pin, someone might not connect the earth wire properly. I would certainly be OK about reusing this plug on another double-insulated appliance.

stevehertz 6th Feb 2023 9:21 am

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hamid_1 (Post 1534299)
As I understand it, all household appliances sold in the UK since 1994 are required to be supplied with a fitted 13A BS1363 plug, but not necessarily a moulded one. If the appliance is double-insulated, the earth pin can be made of plastic, certainly on moulded plugs. So far, so good. The issue here is "What if the supplied plug is re-used?"

A long time ago I had a fluorescent desk lamp with a fitted plug which had screw terminals and could be opened. However the cord grip was moulded into the appliance flex. If the flex was replaced there would be no cord grip. There was a label on the plug saying it was not re-usable, presumably for that reason. I wonder if there was a note in the instructions with this appliance, or on a card attached to the plug with words saying the plug must not be reused?

As far as I can see, it's safe to use as supplied. If someone removes the plug and fits it to another appliance in error, surely the manufacturer can't be responsible for that, especially if they've stated somewhere that you shouldn't. After all, someone could cut off a moulded plug with a length of 2-core flex and attach it to something else in a dangerous manner (I've seen it done) - the manufacturer can't be responsible for that, either.

It may be illegal to sell loose plugs with a plastic earth pin (certainly I've never seen any for sale) but technically this is a fitted plug, presumably not to be re-used. I think that's what the supplier will argue. Though I agree, there is a potential for misuse, it's almost impossible to make something 100% foolproof. Even if the plug had a metal earth pin, someone might not connect the earth wire properly. I would certainly be OK about reusing this plug on another double-insulated appliance.

Which is pretty much in accordance with my utterings above. Unqualified or even stupid people will do things that are dangerous, fact. I agree, it should be made difficult for them to do so. But you cannot appoint an electrician to guard over everyone's actions 24 hours a day. How many people wire the proper plug poorly so that it can be pulled loose, excess conductor showing inside, no cord grip, live and neutral swapped or even neutral and earth swapped etc etc? It happens daily and moulded on plugs are only a very small part of the answer, they're not a panacea for safety. :-/

Sideband 6th Feb 2023 10:34 am

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trifocaltrev (Post 1534271)
I was shocked to find this rewireable plug with no metal earth pin on a facial steamer/inhaler that my Niece recently bought. Is a plastic earth pin allowed on a rewireable plug, bearing in mind that it could be connected in a later life to a device that needs an earth, by someone who has little electrical knowledge.

Trevor.

I think you will find that that plug is non-conformal to BS1363 despite what markings it might have. We have lots of fake plugs on items for testing. I would be inclined to check the appliance itself as well.

Cathovisor 6th Feb 2023 11:47 am

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1534278)
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment. And yes, I realise that that's not the case.

I disagree strongly, having seen the standard of wiring perpetrated in my house by someone "qualified". Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?

And as for self-certifying.... don't make me laugh. The trade equivalent of marking your own homework.

TonyDuell 6th Feb 2023 12:57 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1534278)
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment.

That would, I suspect, ruin our hobby.

I have no 'qualifications' to make or repair electrical or electronic equipment, and I suspect it applies to many others here too.

stevehertz 6th Feb 2023 3:03 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyDuell (Post 1534367)
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1534278)
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment.

That would, I suspect, ruin our hobby.

I have no 'qualifications' to make or repair electrical or electronic equipment, and I suspect it applies to many others here too.

Yes, I suppose I really meant people messing about with house electrics, plugs and stuff. Not really enforceable as I have already said.

Roger Ramjet 6th Feb 2023 4:26 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Looking at the ring on the end of the flex, I suspect it was not designed to terminate on that plug... simply because the "ring"' could be used to restrain the flex in the appropriate plug as opposed to the usual cable clamp method.

It would be interesting to know where the appliance was purchased from?

Rog

emeritus 6th Feb 2023 5:02 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathovisor (Post 1534348)
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1534278)
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment. And yes, I realise that that's not the case.

I disagree strongly, having seen the standard of wiring perpetrated in my house by someone "qualified". Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?

And as for self-certifying.... don't make me laugh. The trade equivalent of marking your own homework.

At the time the regulations were changed, an IEE member who was employed to train, assess and examine the competence of electricians to do electrical installation work, observed in a letter to an IEE journal that he was no longer competent in law to rewire his own house.

In the current CPC catalogues, the entries for mains leads terminated with a plug or socket at one end and bare wires at the other, are accompanied by warnings that they are "Only for use by qualified personnel". Not that I have ever been asked about my qualifications when ordering them, and there are no corresponding warnings for rewireable mains plugs.

Lucien Nunes 6th Feb 2023 5:10 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
I agree with @pausherwin and @sideband that this plug does not comply with BS1363-1 and any approvals claimed are probably counterfeit. It is not permissible for a rewireable plug to incorporate an ISOD (insulated shutter-opening device, the official name for the plastic pin.) They are one of the more recent kinds of non-compliant plug, which like all of their ilk cast doubt on the validity of approvals and safety of the appliances which which they are supplied.

Quote:

Looking at the ring on the end of the flex, I suspect it was not designed to terminate on that plug
The plastic moulding you can see extends to within the plug body and engages in a groove there. This strain-relief configuration is also used on some standards-compliant (albeit usually cheap and nasty) flex/plug pairings.

stevehertz 6th Feb 2023 5:30 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathovisor (Post 1534348)
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1534278)
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment. And yes, I realise that that's not the case.

I disagree strongly, having seen the standard of wiring perpetrated in my house by someone "qualified". Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?

And as for self-certifying.... don't make me laugh. The trade equivalent of marking your own homework.

Ooh dear? Hmm, regarding what I said, exactly what are you disagreeing strongly with? If you have had a job done and are not satisfied with it, then you must complain to that person's boss and/or the trade organisation for which he represents. And I never even mentioned self certifying though it appears as if I did.

pmmunro 6th Feb 2023 6:41 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathovisor (Post 1534348)
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 1534278)
We're really in age where only qualified people should be working on electrical equipment. And yes, I realise that that's not the case.

I disagree strongly, having seen the standard of wiring perpetrated in my house by someone "qualified". Explain to me how a Chartered Engineer with the IET can design and sign off an installation, but cannot actually do the installation?

With the proviso that that C. Eng. is fully conversation with the wiring regulations (BS7671) and probably has a current C & G 2382 Certificate. Some people with C. Eng, MIET are software engineers - nothing wrong with that, but whatever their discipline all are bound by their professional ethics to work within their competence.

"And as for self-certifying.... don't make me laugh. The trade equivalent of marking your own homework".

I have been accused of this, in exactly those words, by a lawyer who probably couldn't have wired a BS1363 plug properly. Some parts of a system can only be inspected during an installation and should be tested as the work progresses to avoid expensive remediation, so what is the alternative other than having an inspector on site at all times?

If you take your car for an MOT test and ask the technician to carry out any necessary repairs during the process, do you then insist that her work is tested by another independent and equally qualified and assessed tester at another test station?

The problem lies in the lack of effective scrutiny and verification of electricians and with those who always accept the lowest quotation without considering quality and safety.

How many local authority Building Standards departments employ qualified inspectors who are willing to vist sites? And how many Trading Standards offices employ people who know and understand The Plugs and Sockets etc. (Safety) Regulations 1994 and BS1363?

Would our political masters/lawyers/accountants appreciate that a plug held together by red tape is very likley unsafe?

PMM

Trifocaltrev 6th Feb 2023 6:57 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have now had a chance to remove the plug cover and find that it is indeed a standard plug with a plastic earth pin! It is stamped BS1363/A etc. The appliance was bought from Argos recently!

Trevor.

Electronpusher0 6th Feb 2023 7:58 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
One for trading standards surely?

Peter

its ur aerial 6th Feb 2023 7:59 pm

Re: Rewireable 13Amp Plug Without Brass Earth Pin
 
I am also certain it doesn't comply with BS1363.
As for Trading standards not enforcing standards, I believe that task has now been given over to the Citizens Advice to deal with.
A few years ago a neighbour asked me, as I was a Electrician, to fit a new Bathroom Light she had bought, on inspection, I refused to fit it, an advised her that it was such poor quality and potentially dangerous, and well as having no IP number or CE mark etc, in fact I was so concerned that these were being sold as bathroom light fittings, I tried to contact my local Trading standards, but I was just directed to a CAB helpline, the call handler took the details, but I could tell she had no understanding of what I was concerned about.
That was probably over 5 years ago, I was never contacted .
Ken G6HZG


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