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-   -   Baird T5 restoration project. (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=152005)

peter_scott 19th Nov 2019 6:53 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Panrock (Post 1192918)
That's an interesting ad, Jac. I wonder what the difference was between the 6/4 and the (later?) 6/6?

I wonder if the 6/4 was the CRT with the totally blown envelope and the 6/6 the one with the moulded screen?

Peter

Panrock 19th Nov 2019 7:47 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Could be... Looking HERE has reminded me that my old 702 listed a 6/4 on its valve label. Maybe the 6/6 was fitted on those first generation sets produced from 1938 on. It would be interesting to hear what's on the label of 12-inch EMI sets belonging to others, though probably off-topic for this thread.

Steve

Jac 19th Nov 2019 8:01 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Steve,

Both my 702 and 900 have 6/4 on the label.

Jac

Panrock 19th Nov 2019 8:20 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Back to Baird... I've just noticed I have an ex-Tudor Rees photocopy of the manual for the T5C. Included are details of the "scanning equipment" and the Cathovisor tube. I haven't checked back in this thread but it's likely David B. and others already have this. However I can scan and post it here if requested.

Steve

Jac 19th Nov 2019 8:25 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
It would certainly be of interest Steve!

Jac

FERNSEH 19th Nov 2019 9:03 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hello Jac,
I still have that very early production HMV 900 in my possession but up to now I've been unable to ascertain the type of Emiscope CRT installed in the metal box. Never worked out how the tube can be removed from it's box. It's impossible lift it out vertically.
But we'll leave in there for the time being because there is plenty work to do on the two Baird sets, the T5 and T23.

DFWB.

Panrock 20th Nov 2019 12:53 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jac (Post 1192972)
It would certainly be of interest Steve!

Here is the handbook for the Baird T5C c/w comments on the scan apparatus.

What is the difference between the T5 and T5C?

It's in a .zip file, containing 7 .gifs titled by page no.

Click HERE to download.

Steve

PS. There seem to be some folder layers in the .zip from my computer, but the Baird files are at the bottom...

Jac 20th Nov 2019 2:45 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Panrock (Post 1193080)
Here is the handbook for the Baird T5C c/w comments on the scan apparatus.

What is the difference between the T5 and T5C?

Thanks Steve!
I found different cabinet fronts (and sides) for the T5 and T5C, but I'm not sure if that is all there is to it:

Attachment 194004 Attachment 194005

Jac

FERNSEH 20th Nov 2019 3:20 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
The black banding around the front and sides of the T5C is only painted on. That's how it is on my T23.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 25th Nov 2019 6:02 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Now that the Freeview retuning has settled down it's time to make a start on laying on the veneers. And very nice veneers they are.
Supplied by Original Marquetry Ltd, Westbury on Trym, Bristol.

So let's this started before anything else happens to me.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 4th Dec 2019 9:08 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
2 Attachment(s)
At last I've made a start on the veneering of the cabinet. First task, lay on veneers around the chamfered CRT screen aperture.

DFWB.

peter_scott 4th Dec 2019 9:57 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
My goodness! That's a rather higher quality of construction than EMI used.

Peter

FERNSEH 4th Dec 2019 10:12 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
"My goodness! That's a rather higher quality of construction than EMI used."
Hi Peter,
although that said I wish Baird Television had simply applied brown paint instead of the veneer. I've no idea how manufactures laid on the pieces of veneer around the chamfered edges of screen apertures and also radio tuning scales because for me it's a time consuming and messy process doing it.

DFWB.

peter_scott 4th Dec 2019 10:59 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hi David,

If it was a mechanised process you might think of separate sides and corners. Four straight sides and four identical corner pieces.

How was the original structured?

Peter

Jac 5th Dec 2019 7:44 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
That's going to look very good David!
Quite a lot of work.

I think I have only two sets with this construction: Pye LV30 and the 1948 Philips experimental projection receiver (SX861A).

Jac

FERNSEH 5th Dec 2019 3:20 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Peter_Scott wrote: "If it was a mechanised process you might think of separate sides and corners. Four straight sides and four identical corner pieces."
Hi Peter,
The attachment shows a corner of the screen aperture of the original Baird top panel. I just can't believe the veneer around the edges was applied by hand, some automated process must have been employed.

"Quite a lot of work." Hello Jac, I reckon it took almost two hours to do edge veneering. No production planner would allow for that.

DFWB.

peter_scott 5th Dec 2019 5:05 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hi David,

Is it one continuous strip with just the one seam?

Peter

FERNSEH 5th Dec 2019 6:05 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
"Is it one continuous strip with just the one seam?"

Hi Peter, because of its terrible condition one can't really tell how it is on the T5 panel. However, the T23 has a similar CRT panel and it would appear two strips have been used for the chamfered edge.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 6th Dec 2019 10:31 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Two pieces of wood veneer have been cut to size and will be glued into position.
The attachment shows the symmetrical wood grain pattern and this will be continued on the other two panels.

DFWB.

Argus25 6th Dec 2019 10:51 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
5 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH (Post 1196807)
At last I've made a start on the veneering of the cabinet. First task, lay on veneers around the chamfered CRT screen aperture.

DFWB.

I faced a similar problem on my RCA 621TS, except that somebody in the past had wanted a larger sized picture so they cut a bigger hole in the CRT escutcheon !

When I first saw it I thought Gulp ! how to fix it. I thought of simply re-manufacturing the part, but I wanted to save as much of the original part as possible.

So I decided to cut it out further and glue in some Tasmanian Oak with epoxy resin. After that I re-worked it by hand to create the original shape (see pictures). It was a long job.

FERNSEH 6th Dec 2019 12:55 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Link to the restoration of Hugo's RCA 621TS:
http://worldphaco.com/uploads/621TSARTICLE.pdf

A mighty press to fix the veneers to the panel was set up last night. It consisted of a Formica faced board, an 88 pound (40Kg) Marconi VT50 and two heavy radios.
The contraption has done it's job so now the veneer edges have to be trimmed.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 6th Dec 2019 5:18 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The new CRT screen panel is now ready for staining and polishing.

DFWB.

Jac 6th Dec 2019 5:30 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Looking great David!

Which glue due you use for the veneer?

Jac

FERNSEH 6th Dec 2019 6:07 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hello Jac,
I used Gorilla wood glue, the best glue I've ever used. Made in the USA.
Gorilla market a wide range of adhesives. There's one for every job.

"For the toughest jobs on Planet Earth"

DFWB.

Jac 6th Dec 2019 6:16 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Thanks David.

I'm looking forward to see (and learn from) your staining work!

Jac

Lloyd 1985 6th Dec 2019 8:12 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hi David,

That's looking really good, wish my woodworking skills were as good as yours!

Regards,
Lloyd

FERNSEH 6th Dec 2019 8:24 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hello Jac,
The original lacquer finish was very dark which was the way furniture was presented eighty years ago. However, it does seem a shame that the new veneer has to be stained to a very dark colour to resemble the original finish.

DFWB.

Panrock 6th Dec 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Won't staining the veneer run the risk of picking up any scratches in the grain pattern? A spray-over toner would be safer and probably more original too.

Steve

FERNSEH 6th Dec 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Panrock (Post 1197288)
Won't staining the veneer run the risk of picking up any scratches in the grain pattern? A spray-over toner would be safer and probably more original too.

Steve

Hi Steve,
Something to consider, although I was planning to apply French polish to the assembled cabinet. There was a time when large service departments employed a French polisher to tidy up radio and TV cabinets.
Attachment shows the new control panel being prepared for veneering.

DFWB.

peter_scott 7th Dec 2019 9:17 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
2 Attachment(s)
It looks as if it wasn't just expensive televisions that had venired chamfers. Here's a 1937 Bush SW45 that was priced at 15 guineas. And it wasn't just Bush Radio who were doing it. In the same thread there is a PYE P45 with similar chamfer.

Peter

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=47952

FERNSEH 7th Dec 2019 4:26 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
That's the control panel veneered.
The front panel is the next part to receive attention.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 7th Dec 2019 10:40 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Tomorrow the front panel will be prepared for the application of veneers.
The wood grain pattern will be a continuation from the upper control panel.

DFWB.

Argus25 8th Dec 2019 12:05 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH (Post 1197254)
Hello Jac,
I used Gorilla wood glue, the best glue I've ever used. Made in the USA.
Gorilla market a wide range of adhesives. There's one for every job.

"For the toughest jobs on Planet Earth"

DFWB.

The best glues available for woodworking and re-veneering especially, come from the Luthier's suppliers (Usually Stewart MacDonald), I use Titebond.

I have never warmed to many of the Gorilla glue products as they evolve gas and foam up while setting.

It is impossible to beat Titebond for re-veneering, it acts like a far superior PVA:

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_an...and_Adhesives/

The Luthier suppliers have always had more advanced glues due to the difficulties of restoring musical instruments. They also have excellent woodworking tools too that are difficult to get elsewhere.

FERNSEH 8th Dec 2019 3:17 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
"It is impossible to beat Titebond for re-veneering, it acts like a far superior PVA"
Stewmac ships products to the UK. https://www.stewmac.com/StewMAX/Stew...embership.html

DFWB.

FERNSEH 9th Dec 2019 10:25 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
2 Attachment(s)
After checking the remains of the original front panel we find that the edges around the aperture of the timebase controls are not veneered but simply painted brown. First picture. The same applies to the T23.

The second picture shows the veneer sheets selected for the front panel.

Since these pictures were taken the veneers have been glued to the panel and are presently under the special press made for the job.

DFWB.

Argus25 10th Dec 2019 4:17 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH (Post 1197699)
"It is impossible to beat Titebond for re-veneering, it acts like a far superior PVA"
Stewmac ships products to the UK. https://www.stewmac.com/StewMAX/Stew...embership.html

DFWB.

Also, they sell amazing Tortoise shell and "Mother of Pearl" like panels if you ever need this too, for restorations/repairs:

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_an..._Material.html

https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_an...Materials.html


I used some of this material for a vintage amplifier replica:

http://worldphaco.com/uploads/UX-171...amplifier..pdf

FERNSEH 10th Dec 2019 2:38 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The veneered front panel.

DFWB.

peter_scott 10th Dec 2019 2:48 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
That's beginning to look like a T5!

Peter

FERNSEH 10th Dec 2019 4:45 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi Peter,
now the detailing must be removed from the damaged front panel and transferred to the new one. Some T5 sets don't have this feature and resemble the more austere looking T23.
The attachment is a reworked picture from post No 5.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 13th Dec 2019 12:51 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
The attachment shows the decorative strips are now transferred to the new front panel. Two are missing so replicas will have to be made.

DFWB.

Argus25 13th Dec 2019 6:16 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Fit the replica of the CRT mask I think, rather than the old worm infected one. There is a logical reason. You want the restoration to last as far as possible into the future and look as good as possible too.The old worm infected wood is not consistent with these two objectives.

FERNSEH 19th Dec 2019 10:41 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Close up picture of one of the decorative strips. There's evidence that work has been done in the past to correct woodworm damage. The holes and filler came to light after the dark lacquer was sanded off.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 22nd Dec 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
2 Attachment(s)
Visited the local B&Q store yesterday and found the wood strips we're looking for to replace the missing and damaged decorative strips on the front panel and controls door. The edges of the new strips will need squaring up to match the existing parts.

DFWB.

stevehertz 22nd Dec 2019 5:44 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH (Post 1201340)
Visited the local B&Q store yesterday and found the wood strips we're looking for to replace the missing and damaged decorative strips on the front panel and controls door. The edges of the new strips will need squaring up to match the existing parts.

DFWB.

Difficult to tell from the photos, but pretty sure the B&Q ones are pine and the original ones are perhaps alder. Dyed and lacquered they will be perfect.

FERNSEH 22nd Dec 2019 5:58 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Hi Steve,
The strip is pine but as you say when it's dyed and lacquered they will be perfect. It's 8 foot long so there is plenty there to do some dye colour experimentation.

DFWB.

stevehertz 22nd Dec 2019 6:37 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH (Post 1201346)
Hi Steve,
The strip is pine but as you say when it's dyed and lacquered they will be perfect. It's 8 foot long so there is plenty there to do some dye colour experimentation.

DFWB.

I'd try wood dye first to get a good base colour as near as possible, then fine tune the colour using coloured varnishes/lacquers, mixing them if necessary to obtain the correct hue.

FERNSEH 10th Jan 2020 12:54 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
stevehertz wrote: "I'd try wood dye first to get a good base colour as near as possible, then fine tune the colour using coloured varnishes/lacquers, mixing them if necessary to obtain the correct hue."

The original decorative strips were pinned and glued into position yesterday. The replacement strips will receive special attention in the manner Steve suggests.
Later today the new panel will test fitted in the cabinet.

DFWB.

FERNSEH 11th Jan 2020 1:13 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Showing the new front panel fitted in the cabinet.

DFWB.

peter_scott 11th Jan 2020 8:35 am

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
It's going to be very good!

Peter

FERNSEH 15th Jan 2020 3:43 pm

Re: Baird T5 restoration project.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Although the new side panels looked OK, after applying French polish I wasn't entirely satisfied with the appearance of the surfaces. On Monday it was decided to use the remainder of those veneer sheets bought last year to improve the look of the sides. Also, as the front panel is covered with those decorative strips the grain pattern of the veneer is almost covered up. At least the new veneers can be seen at the sides. I haven't book matched the veneer because the original panels weren't done in that manner.

DFWB.


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