UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

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-   -   The Audiophoolery Thread. (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=140332)

MrBungle 6th Oct 2017 9:42 am

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Been thinking about this thread and it spans other things as well: wine, audio equipment, musical instruments, art, food. Anything based on interpretation of the senses seems to drive conspicuous consumption because it's easy to use it to leverage other people's ignorance to inflate their outwardly perception.

The moment you apply science it devalues it which is why non-scientific words with no quantifiable meaning are used. It's protecting the idea and some ego.

I'm a cheapskate and science tends to keep the prices down ;)

Heatercathodeshort 6th Oct 2017 11:34 am

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Thankfully I read this before my pet Orangutan 'Interlace' did. He has been burning in cables for years and almost burnt the workshop down fiddling with an old mains transformer out of a telly.

I can't admit to him that I was wrong! :thumbsup: John

Dual Standard 6th Oct 2017 11:51 am

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBungle (Post 980648)
This is correct. It's called the skin effect and is dependent on the material and frequency.

QED (who manufacture speaker cable) did some research into this as part of their Genesis project & cable design, their conclusion was that skin effect in speaker cables is not an issue and may even be beneficial.
A good summary of their research can be found at http://www.qed.co.uk/qed-academy/reports/the-genesis-report.htm?lang=de

Mike

mole42uk 6th Oct 2017 2:39 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

QED (who manufacture speaker cable) did some research into this as part of their Genesis project & cable design
A good summary of their research can be found at http://www.qed.co.uk/qed-academy/reports/the-genesis-report.htm?lang=de
I did look to see if the report was dated anywhere between March 31st and April 2nd but couldn't find any evidence.

G8HQP Dave 6th Oct 2017 3:09 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Most of that QED report is sensible, and simply replicates what normal circuit theory says. The part I doubt is when they say that speaker cable insulation quality matters.

Bazz4CQJ 6th Oct 2017 3:56 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
I've definitely seen cable where the copper was "blackened" and seemed as though there might have been chemical interaction between insulation and conductor. PVC, in particular, with its high chloride content, might be a problem if it had been processed poorly?

B

G8HQP Dave 6th Oct 2017 4:26 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
They were talking about sound quality.

Skywave 6th Oct 2017 5:07 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler (Post 980773)
"Stranded wire has many places where the strands touch together and this smears the sound" - priceless!
Adding a screen reduces the openness and spatiality - or words to that effect....

To give any quantitative meaning to "smeariness" and "spatiality", the author should have added a few appropriate remarks as to what units are used to determine those phenomena - such as "smears per mm." and "spats per cc." :-)

Years ago, when I was employed by a derivative of Eddystone Radio, in the test dep't. were the customary Raaco racks holding spare parts. One such drawer was labelled "Spare electrons". However, when you withdrew the drawer, on a piece of paper was the message: "Oh come, come! You didn't really expect to find electrons in here, did you?" :laugh1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by David G4EBT (Post 980622)
Thought for the day:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

And my contribution:
"The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and human stupidity, although not necessarily in that order". :-)

Al.

stevehertz 6th Oct 2017 7:59 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
The problem (?) with this type of thread/post is that they always seem to degenerate (?) into a collection of spoof comments regarding the subject matter. That's just an observation; not a criticism, not an affirmation. But in truth it is a sad indictment that there are still many people who - either in order to make money or (so they blindly think) - to improve their hifi system who will, pretty much, believe anything that is wrapped up in prose in which a sprinkling of pseudo technical terms such as 'energy', 'alignment', and 'atoms' are used.

The General 6th Oct 2017 8:20 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
A couple of colleagues who worked in the aformentioned radio studios & I used to occasionally go for a mooch at lunchtime in the hifi stores in Tottenham Court Road in London. I got talking to another customer there once who told me that he'd spent 10,000 on his hifi & still wasn't satisfied with the sound (this was in the mid 80s).
Wow.
To be fair, he didn't mention any of the 'snake oil' stuff discussed in this thread but I did think that if he'd spent that much & was still dissatisfied, he would probably spend more & never find a point at which he was truly happy.
Mark

Skywave 6th Oct 2017 9:13 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilikevalvesme (Post 980989)
I got talking to a customer there who told me that he'd spent 10,000 on his hi-fi & still wasn't satisfied with the sound (this was in the mid-'80s).
Wow.

If that 10k had included an appropriately-sized anechoic chamber for him and his hi-fi, then I would have thought he'd done quite well.

When it comes to the question of "How much should I spend on hi-fi?", (subject to a person's hearing and the proposed room), the answer to that Q. - which has always seemed appropriate to me - is that it's simply another example of the Law of Diminishing Returns - and probably exponential, too.

Al.

Skywave 6th Oct 2017 9:17 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehertz (Post 980985)
The problem (?) with this type of thread/post is that they always seem to degenerate (?) into a collection of spoof comments regarding the subject matter.

Agreed: and it does get somewhat depressing after a while. :(

Al.

Radio Wrangler 6th Oct 2017 9:52 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Audiophiles have pumped up the prices of some parts we'd rather use to keep original equipment going.

In retaliation, we laugh at their antics.... it seems fair.

But laughter is a very powerful weapon, so we need to be careful.

I had it put to me this way: Hitler had a far nastier fate planned for Charlie Chaplin than he had for Churchill, if he ever laid hands on either of them. Churchill had only had planes bombing him and his armies, but Chaplin made a film lampooning him and set people laughing at him.

Well, that's the theory, but as soon as the 'scientific' explanations start I still collapse in giggles. I just can't help it.

David

AC/HL 6th Oct 2017 10:40 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilikevalvesme (Post 980989)
he would probably spend more & never find a point at which he was truly happy.

Because there isn't such a point.
The nonsense quoted in this, and several earlier threads (new nonsense is being hatched as we speak) is just that. However, many of you will spend multiples of what I'm prepared to spend on audio equipment (skip finds excepted) to exactly the same end, i.e. enjoying recorded music. It's all a matter of expectations divided by budget.
Unlimited budget = unlimited gullibility, as in every single walk of life.

Radio Wrangler 6th Oct 2017 10:50 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Also those with the limitless budgets are infinitely attractive to those who want to exploit their gullibility. Positive feedback in full runaway mode.

David

Refugee 6th Oct 2017 10:55 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
I get the impression that people just get carried away with a component and take it so far that other people just laugh.
Getting carried away with an earth wire can run to dipping the end of it into a coal bunker as I have shown in post#11. The name in green used to go to a web site that sells the coal bunkers.
Getting carried away with speaker cables ends up with them set on little pylons.

You can go through all the components in a set-up and go too far with each one of them.
Anyone remember that link to wooden capacitors?
https://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/elna1_en.php

joebog1 6th Oct 2017 11:14 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crackle (Post 980654)
I am surprised they don't use copper tube if the core of the wire discolours the sound.

This is precisely the reason I only use Andrews brand one inch Heliax for my speaker wire !!!! N.B. I DONT use the supplied silicon grease to attach the connectors though !!! I have found the sound becomes sticky.

Joe

Radio Wrangler 6th Oct 2017 11:46 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
Fine on the Andrew Corporation heliax but it does tend to limit your choice of connector.

I'n surprised the extreme hifi world hasn't latched onto the APC-7 connector. Anything with those looks and such a price ought to sound wonderful.

If Bi-wiring, use APC-2.4 for tweeters - they go up to 40GHz

David

joebog1 6th Oct 2017 11:50 pm

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote :

If buyers of any goods and services are happy with the outcome and consider it money well spent, the happiness they derive is a just reward for their expenditure, and that goes for audio equipment just as much as any other equipment. I recently noted that a Mullard OC81 used but tested 'white jacketed' transistor sold for 41.00 on an auction site. I don't know what the 'white jacket' signifies, but it clearly meant something to the bidders. Unquote

The white sleeving is used to match the silicon heat transfer grease inside the case, as per the photos.

It wasnt me !! I havent sold any :-D

Joe

( PM me if you need a couple) (( free ))

dseymo1 7th Oct 2017 6:50 am

Re: 'Cable Break In' - I never knew that!
 
If these devices were offered on a 'money back if not satisfied' basis, I suspect the psychology might change somewhat. It would certainly be interesting to see if any remained about which these was a consensus of unexplained but nevertheless beneficial effects.

I remain open-minded about these things, having experienced unexpected results of simple and apparently nonsensical actions, such as moving an amplifier from a shelf to a table.

Sometimes, psychoacoustic effects are inexplicable - I have heard astounding stereo imaging from an Amstrad music centre which I was repairing, when the soundstage suddenly snapped into place for no apparent reason, and I was 'in' the concert hall, despite the otherwise poor reproduction.


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