Use of CT in morse?
 

My first post here so apologies if I'm in the wrong place, or whatever...
I am currently trying to restore a homebrew Tx from around 1966 and also trying to re-learn the morse that I first started with Fred at the Ilford RSGB group around 1965. One of the things that I remember was his views on the use of [CT] to start a message, but we were only learning 5-letter groups, so I never learned how it was used in a real QSO! Hs views seemed to be that amateur radio was falling into disrepute from amateurs becoming reluctant to form QSOs properly staring with [CT]. It has started to niggle away and I have been trying to work out how it would have been used, as I can't find any example in a brief search or by dicussion with current amateurs I know... My RSGB amateur radio handbook of the day refers to [CT] as 'prelimenary call' but gives no example...
I wondered if anyone here might be able to shed some light on the matter.

I did attend the group both in Ilford and at Chadwell Heath - cycling from Gantshill and helped out Fred on the RSGB bookstall for a couple of years. Still have a roll of coax that I got from one of the junk sales and many memories of all those shops along the Romford Road.

73 All

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Hello and welcome to the forums.

I always thought it meant "Commencing Transmission" and was sent as dah di dah di dah.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Hi Dusty. I was taught Morse by ex-Marconi Operator the late Allan Thorne, G3ART, who was at sea in 1917. I was always told that transmissions started with CT (Commence Traffic) and he insisted I used it whenever I sent him any!

It was 'barred' meaning it was sent as 'dah-di-dah-di-dah' as Graham said.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Welcome

The only time i can remember CT being sent was, as Graham said, dah di dah di dah , when the morse examiner sent it to me when i did my morse test back in 1980, at Mablethorpe. ( he sent it twice to be kind :) )

Cheers

Aub

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

I always thought it was to clearly separate the message proper from the preamble or header, in commercial morse traffic.
The end of the message would be AR, again run together as a single character and written with a bar above.
Amateurs these days rarely use CT but the use of AR remains standard practice.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

I have never heard CT used in amateur transmissions and I can't quite see where you would use it in a QSO.
R would be the most common start in each over, sent slowly as dit...dah...dit. These days, often nothing at all and straight in to the reply.
73, Mike

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

If CT was being used wouldn't it be AFTER a link has been established to indicate the start of any message?

In the amateur world your first call would be CQ (presumably - unless you were calling a known recipient) then, once the link was established you'd send your message preceded by CT, if it was to be lengthy I supppose. The use of R or even E (slowly) told the recipient that you were 'about to start' or pausing to prepare yourself etc. I also used I (slowly) during some links with Portishead.

ISTR this practise when I was at sea and before sending such messages as a stores list or, indeed, telegrams.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

dah di dah di dah also known as blah de blah de blah in some circles ;D

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

I've sometimes heard people sign off on a morse QSO using the 'inverse' of CT, di dah di dah dit. As I rarely use CW myself I'm not sure how 'normal' that is either.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

I was a sea going sparky in the 60's too. Our morse tutors at South East Essex Tech, Dagenham always started their lessons with a CT and ended with an AR and I did the same with messages sent through a coast station - CT was a sort of 'that's the end of the pleasantries, now let's get down to business". My AR was followed by a "NXT SLT or NXT MSG" so that the shore op put the right form in his typewriter and then he sent "R K". When it was all over, there was a "NW NIL TNX CU" or similar.

Aha! I've just dug out my copy of the PMG handbook and there is a whole list of abbreviations after all the "Q" codes. Strangely enough, there is no CT! There is an AR but it says that is the "End of Transmission", and VA meant "End of work". Perhaps we've been doing it wrong all these years!

Aha! Another Aha! In the chapter "Transmission of Radiotelegrams" it says "The transmission of a radiotelegram is preceded by the signal CT" and the end of the message is signalled by "AR" so they've contradicted themselves.

On another note - why do the military not use question marks? After my merchant days I did a spell in the RNR and the very first time I went to sea in our minesweeper and called up Pompey with a "QRU?" (have you any messsages for me?) the PO who was with me in the cabin said "we don't use the ? we send INT QRU" for "interrogative", so it was always INT not ? after that.

Never mind, it's all purely academic now - we've all been superceded by the blasted GMDSS!

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Certainly taught to be sent at the start of morse practice pieces, both in the class room and on air - and probably also at my morse test in 1969. But NEVER used in real QSOs which as you say would normally start with a CQ. Never heard since in any form.

QSOs are still ended with VA (or SK if you like) but relatively rarely. More usual is an exchange of dots - E II HI or whatever.

Dave G3YMC

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

The GPO Handbook For Radio Operators gives CT barred as "Commencing Signal".

See:-

https://ia601703.us.archive.org/1/it...75%20v4.31.pdf

Personally, I use AS barred to start a CQ call. That is written down as an exclamation mark and I suppose might mean "Attention!"?

I can recommend a search on YouTube for Japanese Morse. There is a 7(?) part video by an ex-RN operator who specialised in it and is also quite amusing, although not PC in today's world!

73

Roger/G3VKM

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Quite normal. That's AR barred (run into one). See other posts. I use AR K as an invitation to reply after my 'over' whether that's the right thing to do or not I'm not sure but I was taught to do that.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

That sounds to me like the military equivalent of legalese: no punctuation whatsoever but loads of 'and' between sentences. I suppose it makes for unambiguity.

I've known military telegraphs in the past that don't have commas!

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Interestingly, I have always thought that AS barred was an instruction to the other station to wait (presumably while the sending station gathers some more information)

It all goes to show that operating protocol evolves in a similar fashion to language.

Even more interestingly, decades ago I knew the now long time silent key G2RT who had been an army officer who taught Japanese morse during the war. As a school boy just starting out in amateur radio he was a great source of information and support (although he never taught me Japanese morse!)

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Sorry, my mistake! AS is "WAIT"! I should have said VE-barred for !

Doh!

Cheers

Roger

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

At least one RSGB slow morse operator always uses CT between the callsign GB2CW and the start of the text.

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

If you tune in the GB2CW on 3605 at 0900 on a Thursday morning you will hear CT used before transmissions.
Don m5aky

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

How strange...
Rogers PMG handbook 1975 version says it was £3.50p yet mine, also 1975 version, exactly the same blue cover was only 95p - I must have got a bargain!

Re: Use of CT in morse?
 

Or the edition I found on-line was a new one? I remember buying a copy in 1966 for radio school but that's pre-decimal currency!

73

Roger