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-   -   Battery scans - copyright issues (https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/showthread.php?t=181495)

Phil G4SPZ 29th Jun 2021 2:29 pm

Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Can anyone advise, please? The museum where I work as a volunteer is planning a 1959 shop counter display featuring Ever Ready HT/LT batteries for battery valve portable sets. The artwork is readily available online, and I have offered to help construct the display, but the question of copyright has been raised.

Obviously this is a different application from an individual enthusiast wishing to build a replica battery for a restored set.

If anyone has experience in dealing with replica branded packaging in the museum sector, I should be interested to hear from you.

Many thanks,

paulsherwin 29th Jun 2021 3:07 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
It may be worth contacting the management at the other big industrial or working museums to ask if they've had to deal with similar issues - Black Country and Beamish are the obvious ones, but there are lots of others now. The tram museum at Crich has undoubtedly had to do period reconstructions with copyright implications. A quick email is all that's required.

I don't even know who owns the old Ever Ready trademarks now.

Do you volunteer at Blists Hill? I visited it a couple of years ago, nice day out.

[Later] I see you have clarified the museums involved in another thread.

The Philpott 29th Jun 2021 3:40 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
I have to say that in such a situation i would just do it and wait and see if there's a complaint. You can't really be seen to be raking in revenue on the shoulders of a copyright holder, so the worst that could be expected would be a polite request to remove from display. If you had such replica artwork on sale in the museum shop that could) be different..
Dave

paulsherwin 29th Jun 2021 3:46 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Dave, you and I might do that, but museums have to be very careful with such issues. They are usually registered charities, and have all sorts of legal responsibilities. Phil is right to be cautious.

broadgage 29th Jun 2021 4:04 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Would the copyright holder even KNOW that the items on display are copies or replicas ? Rather than long expired and now non functional original items.

They would surely have no objection to a display of original items ? Free advertising.

Radio Wrangler 29th Jun 2021 4:25 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
If it's a registered trademark, it needs to be registered somewhere. Patent office? Companies house? So you could try to ask them. If they aren't friendly, create your own brand. Some parody like Never Ready is a bit too close but how about Always Flat - something they wouldn't register in a month of Sundays.

David

Nuvistor 29th Jun 2021 4:44 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Is this a possibility?
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tm.../UK00900209486

If not the site has details of EverReady in the USA.

Cobaltblue 29th Jun 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
A silly question but is it the copyright of the original Battery designs that is of concern or the copyright of the scans.

If it's the scans contact someone like Michael Watterson he has scanned and cleaned up many Ever Ready and Vidor "nets"
I'm sure he would be happy to allow you use of his scans.
If its the original design you would need to ask Ever Ready.

Michaels web site http://www.techtir.com/ seems to be offline at the moment however.

Cheers

Mike T

mole42uk 29th Jun 2021 5:12 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
You could always make them with the label Ever-Ready - apparently the Eveready company hasn't used that since 1914 so probably wouldn't quibble about it!

agardiner 29th Jun 2021 5:17 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
The name Ever Ready is now owned by Energiser. I doubt they will object, so I would get on and email them.

ThePillenwerfer 29th Jun 2021 5:27 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobaltblue (Post 1386451)
A silly question but is it the copyright of the original Battery designs that is of concern or the copyright of the scans.

Just for the record, the battery labels I've produced — in the sticky thread here and on my web-site — can be freely used by anybody as far as I'm concerned. Obviously I can't speak for the trademark owners and refer purely to any rights I may hold for my efforts.

emeritus 29th Jun 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
I used to have to know about Copyright for my day job, but the law has changed somewhat in the 10 years or so since I retired and I have not kept up to date with developments. Any decent firm of Patent Attorneys should give you 30 mins free consultation and should be aware of the present situation.

Some general points which I think are still valid, (but don't rely on them!)

Registered Trade marks have be renewed every 10 years, and it is unlikely that trade marks from the 1950's would have been renewed.

Copyright may or may not still exist in the 1950's packaging.

The term of any copyright existing in the artwork would in the first instance be computed from the death of he author. I doubt that the original author's identity could be established, in which case the commencement date would run from the date of first publication.

Before European law got involved, the 50 year term for anonymous works would have expired by now, so there would be no existing copyright to infringe. However, copyright term has been progressively extended during the past couple of decades, resulting in the restoration of certain types of lapsed copyright. It's all very confusing, and dates are important to know what law applies.

The term of copyright for anonymous works used to be 50 years, but as a consequence of European harmonisation it is now I think 70 years.

The date of first publication will determine which law applies. If it was before 1956, then the 1911 Act applies. If before 1989, then it is the 1956 Act.

I really can't see a large company bothering with a museum that is only making one or two replicas for an exhibit. As noted.by others, to be sure you would need to contact the successors in title to Ever Ready and explain what you want to do. When I was with GEC, they were happy for third parties to reproduce their old stuff as long as acknowledgement was given. Someone was actually given permission to make and sell reproductions of one of their old books on valves without having to pay any royalties.

It's a completely different story where large-scale reproductions of expensive vintage stuff is concerned. The following link dealing with reproductions of vintage jaguar cars in Sweden gives some idea of the complexity of copyright law that have been brought about by EC-initiated law amendments. But in that case the vintage design is commercially valuable, unlike repro radio batteries.

https://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2021/0...plica.html?m=1

mole42uk 29th Jun 2021 9:27 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by agardiner (Post 1386462)
The name Ever Ready is now owned by Energiser. I doubt they will object, so I would get on and email them.

I thought it was Eveready that was owned by Energizer. Do they still have a claim on Ever-Ready?

McMurdo 29th Jun 2021 9:37 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
I can't see any difference between displaying a reproduced product and a genuine one in the window. It's quite clear you're not trying to pass off one product based on the reputation enjoyed by another for financial gain or with nefarious intent, which is how I interpret (as an armchair amateur!) trademark infringement.

ThePillenwerfer 29th Jun 2021 9:53 pm

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mole42uk (Post 1386514)
I thought it was Eveready that was owned by Energizer. Do they still have a claim on Ever-Ready?

My understanding is that the American company Ever Ready set up a British subsidiary which became a wholly separate company. The US firm was later renamed Eveready and in more recent times has traded as Energizer. When the British Ever Ready went bust the American Eveready/Energizer bought-up what was left.

Phil G4SPZ 30th Jun 2021 12:15 am

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
Many thanks to all for the helpful suggestions.

The idea is to display replicas of obsolete Ever Ready batteries, some of which were made in nearby Wolverhampton. The point is that photographs of the display could well appear al a future date in guide books and other publications sold by the Museum for profit, or even in commercial films shot on the premises, hence the need to avoid infringing any copyrights.

I will advise the Museum to try to contact Eveready/Energizer through official channels. I can't see why permission would be refused; we are intending to showcase the products of a once-famous British industry in a historical context.

emeritus 30th Jun 2021 12:17 am

Re: Battery scans - copyright issues
 
The new owners could simply have abandoned the older trade marks etc. When GEC relaunched as Marconi, they abandoned their (British) General Electric Trade Marks, and even placed an ad in the papers at the time of their relaunch, saying to the American General Electric that they were all yours now. Likewise, when Plessey got taken over by GEC, it was decided to abandon all the Plessey Registered Trade Marks by not paying the renewal fees when they fell due on their 10th anniversaries. The Plessey trade mark and CRT logo must have still been live in South Africa for the rights to become acquired by a South African company, who were still using the Plessey trade mark and roundel logo for their business a few years ago.


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