What is this crystal/valve military set?

[GMB]

I saw this at a rally.

Anyone recognise it?

It's case is typical of WW1 sets (lacquered canvas) and its general construction is rather like the "Short Wave Tuner Mk-III", but having valves (the ones fitted are not right) it looks like a 1920's thing possibly?

A coil plugs into the socket at the top-right.

(The annotation is gone from the quite large number of terminals down the left edge.)

[JacKam_]

Nice, Is that a joke ?
J

[trh01uk]

Presumably there is absolutely no clue anywhere on the outside - or the inside - no reference numbers or other symbols?

Richard

[radiotechnician]

I have never seen that radio before. However Marconi built the MSL-5. I did own one for a while.

It was a 4 tube battery operated regenerative type, for earphone use. It had five bands, the last band reached into the standard broadcast. The other four were VLF.

It also was fitted with a cat's whisker crystal under the lid. If desired, the headphones could engage the crystal for reception. It was a WW-2 navy design. Rumor had it, that wartime running sometimes mandated no signals that could give up the location of the ship, reached the aerials. That was done by switching off the 6 volt, and 90 volt batteries.

[GMB]

Is that a joke ?

No.

Presumably there is absolutely no clue anywhere on the outside

Exactly - hence I am asking. Military things are not always branded and the serial number was stamped into the wooden box.

MSL-5 looks a much later thing, more 1940's. This has a 1920's look about it to me. But I can see some similarities so may be a Marconi thing.

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by JacKam_

Nice, Is that a joke ?
J

I don't get this either....


Saw the same set myself, possibly at the same time and place if the set was also being removed from its box for an internal inspection by GMB. The price was a bit high and one of its coils was sold separately to another punter which I thought was a pity.


It looked like a commercially built set.

[M0SOE_Bruce]

Could also be just a part of a system. Looking at the photo here you can see the strapping bars joining the two pieces. The nomenclature is on the left unit only.

[AC/HL]

It could be a Tingey. There's a picture of a much less elaborate one, a "valve tuner no.22" in Radio Radio (page 31, 1920) which shows a family resemblance. The text says they were manufactured using parts from surplus mark III short wave tuners. That coil holder doesn't look original to me.

[PJL]

If the knobs below the valves are rheostats then it was designed to accommodate bright emitter valves so pre-1926/7. The enclosed crystal detector looks around 1923/4. The socket for the coil looks like a modification. One valve appears to be BBC marked but no pip so maybe 1925. It appears to have 3 tuning controls for each stage and it would be interesting to see the underside.

[GMB]

The rheostats are a well known brand and the manufacturer describes them as for both dull and bright emitter valves (typically for reaction control I think). An early 1920's date for an advert for those that I have seen.

Yes, part of a system is very likely. I forgot to mention the two threaded holes on the left side as if something might have been screwed onto the side.
What a lot of connections.

I should have photoed the insides. They were dominated by two very large variable capacitors.
The two little vernier controls were unusual (bottom left and right) and made me wonder what it was for. They looked like a brass cylinder with a curved plate external to it. The knob allowed the plate to be moved up and down as well as round and round - as if coarse and fine adjustment of what is already a very small capacitor.

The whole thing looks as if it might be two things in one box.

[AC/HL]

The grooves in the cabinet also suggest connections to adjacent items. Those vernier controls look more recent, despite one being labelled, and the right hand one is out of line.

[GMB]

and the right hand one is out of line.

Actually it is not out of line. You have been fooled by the perspective.
The photo was very skew so it was reprocessed to square it up.

[AC/HL]

Ah, I thought that would have been careless!

[Mr Moose]

Hello,
I would say it is a home built set in an older army case.
The lettering on the front looks like it is made with transfers that you could buy in the 1920s rather than the engraving you would expect from a manufactured set.
Some parts seem to be from the early 1920s and others from the late 1920s.
The six "spare" terminals on the left side would probably have been for a three coil (2 swinging) coil holder attached to the side of the set using three standard 2-pin coils.
Yours, Richard

[GMB]

Yes, that's very plausible.

I was struck by the similarity of the box to the Short Wave Tuner Mk-III so the idea that it actually is one works for me. If others were using the boxes and reworking them as per the suggestion about "valve tuner no.22" then this may have been a popular sport.
I have always thought that Short Wave Tuner Mk-III must have been made in vast quantities as so many of them seem to have survived.

[ChrisC18Mar]

Here are another 2 photos of the set as seen at Dunstable Downs radio rally last year (it was there again this year). The first one shows the top half in a bit more detail, and the second shows the internals, although apologies as it's a bit dark.
At the time, it looked like the case wasn't original to the panel; it looked a bit like a 30s portable gramophone case, with a chunky leather handle.
There were no makers' markings, crossed rifles/arrows at all on the panel, and the legends looked more permanent than transfers.

Chris

[GMB]

it looked a bit like a 30s portable gramophone case, with a chunky leather handle.

But it isn't.
I recognised it immediately - it IS the box of a Short Wave Tuner Mk-III of the WW1 years. They had no military ID but the lacquered canvas covering is rather distinctive (some kind of Mil. standard of WW1) and the lid has all the marks of where the crystal box and watch mount would have been.
It is also the same size.

I feel that is confirmed now that we know that these boxes were used post-war to house other things.

So next time we see it (and I am sure we will) we can convey the bad news to the vendor. It raises the question as to what it is worth and what it actually was (seems a bit more than just a single radio).