Does 'Fluxite' degrade with age?

[Boater Sam]

Old plumbers flux, like Fluxite, were not 'self cleaning' but relied on the metal being cleaned and then they simply stopped the bright metal surface corroding whilst it was heated.
Modern fluxes contain chemicals that remove surface tarnish aka self cleaning flux, supposedly requiring no surface cleaning before or after soldering.
Presumably these are either acidic or alkaline though Laco professes to be neither and the reps used to eat some to prove that it was nontoxic, I assume they are still alive.
Sam.

[Station X]

Fluxite is an active flux. It contained and still contains corrosive Zinc Chloride which definitely has a cleaning action. This does not obviate the need to clean the surfaces to be soldered first though.

Resins or Rosins as used in cored solder are inactive or inert. They have no cleaning action and should only be used on a clean or tinned surface.

[Boater Sam]

What are the resins and is rosin different Graham? And if they are inert why use them?
Sam.

[Station X]

From the book " Soldering and Brazing" ISBN 0-85242-845-6

FLUXES FOR SOFT SOLDER

(1)'Inert' fluxes On the face of it a 'non-corrosive' flux is a contradiction in terms, for if it has no chemical action it can hardly perform its office. However, there are some substances which show mild reactions at the soldering temperature but none at room temperature and others which change their nature to some extent on heating. In general however it is best to regard all these fluxes as 'protective' - i.e. a clean solderable surface is necessary beforehand.

These fluxes are usually incorporated in the solder itself as a 'core' (or, better as a number of cores) and any which are offered to conform to BS441 (PURCHASING REQUIREMENTS FOR FLUX-CORED AND SOLID SOFT-SOLDER WIRE) can be relied upon to be truly non-corrosive and may be left on the joint indefinitely.

Resin is a liquid obtained from trees. Rosin is the solid form of resin.

Unfortunately, having left work some years ago I have no access to British Standards and cannot comment further on the composition of the resins or rosins used.

[G6Tanuki]

From the 1960s I definitely remember two different kinds of Fluxite.

One was a light-tan brown colour and smelled solventy, giving the traditional rosin-smell when soldered. The other was a dirty mud-brown and the fumes it produced smelled/tasted distinctly acidic.

I'm always concerned about acidic fluxes 'wicking' up the strands of flex or coax-braid and getting into places from which they can't easily be removed.

[Station X]

We've been here before:-

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=85062

[bobskie]

I have a tin of old fluxite which was my great grandfathers, it's been passed down the family! Still works fine it's a sort of thick like grease and dark brown in colour with no smell. I have never used anything else on wires I never even knew about the possible corrosive side effects, nothing bad has happened to any of my solder work as far as I know. I leave it lying open for weeks sometimes when I forget to put the lid on and still it works well. I'll keep on using it unless I notice any problems.

[ColinTheAmpMan1]

Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ

My early memories of Fluxite soldering paste are of a light brown coloured paste, which gave off a notably fresh Zinc Chloride aroma when heated.

To misquote "Private Eye", "shomething wrong here, shurely". Pure zinc chloride is a solid compound and doesn't smell of anything unless it dissociates in some way to liberate hydrochloric acid, or perhaps chlorine gas. It may irritate the nose if the powder is breathed in, but since it is in a paste in Fluxite, that seems unlikely. Perhaps the smell, if acidic, was due to the presence of hydrochloric acid in the paste? I recall liquid flux used in sheet-metalwork being called "killed spirits", as it was made by dissolving zinc in hydrochloric acid, thus "killing" the acid. Of course, not all of the acid was killed, hence an acidic smell when used.
What smell did you experience, Phil; did anyone else notice a smell?

Colin.

[WME_bill]

I have always understood that the original Fluxite was rosin based, and non corrosive. It starts as a light brown colour, but if you leave the lid off, it turns dark brown. The only warning says "If accidentally heated, give it a good stir and allow to cool down." My spare tin is dated 1994.

I still use it most of the time as I find that there is not enough flux in cored solder when working with old components with dull leads. Very useful indeed also when re-soldering possible dry joints.
I suggest it must have some cleaning or dissolving action, and certainly does more than just protecting a cleaned surface.

To protect an already cleaned surface is the technique used when soldering lead sheets or pipes. You scrape the sruface bright clean and coat with tallow, which
melts when heated. It does make lead soldering much easier.
Don't breathe the lead fumes, though I probably did 60 yearsa ago, and still here. Sign of lead poisoning is blue lips if you're worried. Used to be very common in Glasgow in 19century, as came from the very soft water when water pipes were lead.

However, modern Fluxite, introduced from late 1990s, contains zinc chloride, and is highly corrosive.
Has a little red warning goblin on the side of the tin.
When heated the zinc chloride dissociates to give hydrogen chloride, a gas, which is what you smell, and immediately dissolves in water to give hydrochloric acid. Both forms are very active and dissolve surface oxides on the metal. Killed spirits was the same, but usually had free acid, so was even more corrosive.

As it is marketed for plumbers, that is fine, and it makes soldering pipes very much easier. You can tell it has been used as the pipe below the join always turns green where the flux residues runs down from the joint. The hydrochloric acid has formed copper chloride. Unless you have found a very high quality plumber, who wipes the join clean with a damp rag.

I use rosin dissolved in isopropyl alcohol as an adhesive for paper insulation. Useful for coil repairs or transformers.

I must experiment with using it as a flux. I get it as a small brittle block intended for use on string players' bows.

If anyone wants a small tin full of old Fluxite, let me know, as I don't expect to use up the several tins which I have. Even if I get to 100.
wme_bill m0wpn

[Station X]

Bill.

Here is a picture of my own tin of Fluxite which as you can see is marked "CORROSIVE"

The tin has a price tag from "Martin and Newby" an Ipswich hardware shop and an 01 London telephone number.

This approximately dates it from between October 1983 when I moved to Ipswich and May 1990 when London numbers changed to 071 and 081. I think it very likely that it dates from the early 1980's when I set up my metalworking workshop.

Much of the writing in the underside of the tin has worn off, but there is the same advice about what to do if the product is accidently heated.

Round the edge of the lid it says "Contains ZINC CHLORIDE 1840. Keep container tightly closed and dry. After contact with skin wash immediately with cold water".

I can't see a date on the tin. Where is it likely to be?

[WME_bill]

Graham.
Very interesting. My two types of Fluxite.
The larger tin I had dated 1994 which must have been when I was given it at a Durham University Summer School by a kindly Lab Technician. But it shows the early non-corrosive label. My original tin I must have got in late 1950s, when the smell of the flux from unsoldering ExGovt radio equipment was very strong in my shed.
The other smaller tin in the corrosive variety, which I use on plumbing joints. Says the same as yours around the lid edge.

So probably it was 1980 or so that Fluxite started adding the zinc chloride to meet the competition when the first inputs of "quick acting" flux appeared from the US.
Bill

[Station X]

Tins like that in post #1 with the "FLUXITE" logo having scrolled ends, would appear to predate the tins with straight ended logos shown in the last two posts.

More recent tins have a very prominent H&S warning with hazard triangle etc.

I haven't seen any of the flat tins of late, just the paint tin type.

[G4YVM David]

40 years sounds a lifetime, but I've just done the maths and it IS a lifetime AND my own tin is...40 years old. ������

D

[Phil G4SPZ]

I never anticipated that my simple starter-for-ten question would lead to such an interesting thread! Thanks to all contributors, especially Graham (Station X) who pointed out that I had started a related thread in 2012 on zinc chloride liquid flux and Baker's Fluid, about which I'd completely forgotten...

ColinTheAmpMan asked, "What smell did you experience, Phil...?" All I can say is that it was very distinctive. Sharp, metallic, sweetish but not unpleasant. The reason I named it "the zinc chloride smell" was that, as a schoolboy interested in chemistry as well as radio, I dissolved some metallic zinc in dilute hydrochloric acid. The result was a powerful (probably highly acidic) but very effective flux, and its aroma was quite memorable. At around the same time I owned - and still do - a small rim-drive tape recorder which smelled very similar inside. I concluded that the smell was coming from the remnants of the flux used in the manufacture of its printed circuit board. Subsequently, I have occasionally come across the same pleasant aroma inside transistorised equipment from the 1960-1970 era.

All this has prompted me to dig out a few old radio magazines from my collection. Fluxite were advertising in Wireless World in 1935, and still running virtually the same old-fashioned advert in 1943, featuring "The Fluxite Quins", five gnome-like characters, in a range of escapades involving soldering - always radio or wiring, never plumbing - accompanied by some doubtful rhyming limericks. The 1943 advert mentions that Fluxite had been "...used for over 30 years by Government departments and by leading engineers", which puts its launch around the first decade of the twentieth century. By the 1960s the Fluxite ads seem to have disappeared, at least from WW and PW.

It's probably fair to conclude that Fluxite doesn't actually deteriorate, but that there have been at least two distinct formulations, an early one and a more recent COSHH-compliant one.

Wouldn't it be nice if the great-grandchildren of the Fluxite Quins could come on and tell us more? In limerick-style rhyme, of course!

Phil

[ex 2 Base]

Grandad used rosin as flux, it was in a lump in a tin, something like violinists use on their bows. When I was in the army we ran short of flux and we used vehicle grease and it worked OK. We cleaned what ever and used stick solder. We were installing extra rear lights on vehicles, originally all vehicles had just one rear light, about 1955/6 time. We were taught that if one cleaned the object to be soldered, the NON active flus precluded the oxygen and therefore no corrosion. Where as the active flux did the cleaning and could cause corrosion. Ted

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by julie_m

Indeed. It could just as easily have been a comic book convention. Imagine going down with a case of batmanella, and then picking up a secondary wonderwomanosis infection while you were in hospital .....

Err shouldn't that be wonderwomanitis if it's an infection?


I believe -osis is a condition (eg diverticulosis) it turns into an -itis if it gets infected (eg diverticulitis)


I guess (trying to remain within a parsec or two of the topic) that health problems resulting from breathing too much flux smoke could be called fluxosis