Connecting phone cables

[Eidolon]

I moved to Fuel Broadband a year or so ago, as Virgin were becoming way too expensive. It meant switching from a fibre-optic line, to the old BT cables.

I had had my home all wired up, a full hardwired system, running from a router/modem at the top of my cellar stairs. I asked Fuel if they would install my new system in a way that would allow me to connect everything up. they said yes, so I went with it.

The OpenReach engineer stuck the new main phone box where he wanted to put it in the front room, but he also wired it up wrong, it was all connected via the box, bypassing the filter, which meant the internet went off everytime the phone rang.

I also lost the ability to phone out from the old style dialer phone in my front room, which I am led to believe is due to a switch setting at the exchange.

I eventually tried the Ombudsman to resolve these sisues as Fuel refused to do anything. The Ombudsman has issued Fuel with an order to compensate me, but they can do nothing to resolve the issues, as its technically OpenReach's errors, who are out of reach due to a beaurocratic technicallity.

I cannot afford to get someone else in to fix this. I have to do it myself.

What I need to do are:
-Extend the outside cable, as the OpenReach engineer cut it short.
-Move the main box, disconnecting and reconnecting the wires where appropriate
-Make some new phone 'plugs' (or whatever they're called) for inserting into the filter when the box is moved to it's new location.

Are there any good guides on how to approach doing this? I dont want to make things worse.

[Station X]

By the "Main Box", I assume you mean the NTE? There should be no need to move this and it's illegal to do so. If you must move it, just extend the two wire line pair to the new position, observing polarity. The 'B' leg will be at about -50V wrt the 'A' leg or earth.

I cannot understand how it is possible to bypass the ADSL filter in the NTE.

If you wish you can plug your phone and router directly into the NTE.

Alternatively removing the lower faceplate will give access to IDC terminations to which you can connect your own telephone extension wiring.

Extension wiring kits for telephones are available from DIY outlets and they consist of cable, extension sockets, a tool for use with the IDC terminations and full instructions.

Searching online will enable you to find suitable cable to extend the router cabling and a suitable socket to plug it into. I believe kits are available.

If your dial telephone doesn't work it may be because your provider's exchange equipment doesn't support pulse dialling, the facility hasn't been enabled at the exchange, or the exchange equipment is very fussy about the dialling speed and mark/space ratio of the dial pulses.

[Eidolon]

Sorry, what does NTE stand for? The thing I'm referring to is what's in your picture

It needs to be in another room (the cellar actually), which is easily enough reached via an air vent. It's the only way, short of drilling a big hole through the floor, of running a DSL lead from it to where the router needs to be to access my home network hub.

The filter I'm referring to isn't in the box itself, it's a plug in thing, with two outputs, one for the Internet, one for the phone. But because the openreach engineer wired the phone up directly into the box for some reason, I can't plug it into the filter. And so the Internet goes off every time the phone rings.


I'd need to extract the phone cable from the box and arrange to wire the end into a plug that can be inserted into the filter. But I'd still need to alter the layout so I can get my wired internet working again, so I still need to move the box or still a hole for more cables :/

[Station X]

NTE denotes Network Termination Equipment.

The NTE contains an ADSL filter, so you don't need a separate one.

When you say the phone is wired directly into the box, do you mean its wired directly to the rear of the removable faceplate with no jack for the telephone?

The correct method is to connect the extension wiring to the rear of the face plate and run it to all your extension jacks.

Go to this page and download the document "UK Telephone Socket Information"

http://www.vintage-radio.info/data

It refers to a Master Jack rather than an NTE, but you'll get the general idea.

To simplify... (and not wishing to instruct on to sucking eggs)
The incoming wires goes to the screw terminals on the NTE. This has a user detachable half "the faceplate".
The NTE can have an ADSL faceplate (one with two sockets on it) there was a 'phone only version.
House phones go to either the IDC connectors in the faceplate or the front 'phone socket.
ADSL (broadband modem) goes to the smaller socket on the dual faceplate. Leaving all the house 'phones filtered in one go.

All in all a simple clever system that "allows" the user to do their own after the incoming line terminates.

[Eidolon]

That's it, it doesn't have a dual faceplate, hence the plug in one. Is there a way to obtain just a dual faceplate, or is it something only openreach will have?

[M0FYA Andy]

Maplin stock dual faceplates (or at least they used to, I bought one a few years ago).

Andy

Is there a way to obtain just a dual faceplate

I got mine by blagging a BT van man, "Hello!, perchance have you one of those phone broadband thingies?" I got one, I think he called it a 'bubble box', I upgraded to a VSDL one (with the choke in the ring wire) using the same technique.

I got half a reel of CT100 (posh TV aerial wire) from a Sky van once too.

[Station X]

Originally Posted by Eidolon

That's it, it doesn't have a dual faceplate, hence the plug in one. Is there a way to obtain just a dual faceplate, or is it something only openreach will have?

You said it was like the picture in post #1. Is that not correct?

If not it sounds like it's a master jack, but it would most unusual for one those to be fitted these days, especially for an ADSL installation.

[Eidolon]

Sorry I didn't see both ports on that picture when I saw it before. Mine only has a port on the bottom for a phone cable.

[Dave Moll]

I must say that I've not come across one laid out like that of Station X - with the ADSL socket in the non-removable part. I'm more familiar with ones like I show below, where a standard (non-splitter) NTE's faceplate is replaced with the one shown (with both sockets in the faceplate).

Unfortunately, the master jack in my house is of the old type, and I've so far resisted the temptation to make an unauthorised replacement, even though I have everything I need.

[Station X]

Originally Posted by Dave Moll

I must say that I've not come across one laid out like that of Station X - with the ADSL socket in the non-removable part.

It's actually in three parts all held together with the two screws. The bottom part comes off first and the telephone extension wiring is connected to the rear of it. I'm my case this cabling is embedded in the wall.

Next the router socket part unplugs. This is about 3" square and I believe contains the ADSL filter. There's provision for running a cable from it to a remote socket for the router, which is what I have.

What's left behind screwed to the wall contains the ringing capacitor, opt out resistor and protection arrangements.

These devices are known as NTE5's and have gone through several MK's, mine isn't the latest.

The latest Mk2 version faceplate for super fast vDSL services such as BT Infinity. Designed to plug into a standard NTE5 telephone socket it is easy to fit, no rewiring is required as the faceplate fits in between the existing front lower faceplate and the rear of the NTE5 socket. Centralised vDSL filtering is then provided negating the need for plug in microfilters with an RJ45/RJ11 socket providing the connection for a modem/router. Alternatively, provision is made for a hard wired connection to the modem via a two way IDC connector on the front. This faceplate is backwards compatible with all ADSL services & represents the latest and best in broadband faceplates available on the market. The Mk2 version adds an RF filter for line stability (a filter for small Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise-REIN) & features differential and common mode filtering performances past 30Mhz.

[Nuvistor]

You could remove the old pulse dialling phone connections, buy a modern corded phone for about £10, plug you ADSL splitter into the present master socket and wire the rest of your system in a conventional manner.

I don't know why OpenReach fitted an old type master socket on an ADSL installation but the reason he fitted it where he did would be down to whatever Fuel paid OpenReach to do.

You should be able to remove the old phone connections without touching any OpenReach line side connections. If the installation is so " Botched" that this is not possible, send photos of how it is now without removing the cover and a covering letter to the MD of OpenReach and Fuel asking for them to get it sorted out. MD's don't like direct complaints from customers, it may get it sorted out. Point out that the problem is one that only OpenReach are allowed to fix. This ploy has worked for me in the past with other types of problems.

Frank

[McMurdo]

Since last year, the latest openreach master sockets have the extension wiring connected in the fixed part. No fixed wiring goes into the faceplate.

[Oldcodger]

On old style ADSL BB,( in days before WI FI ) , I had a simple solution.
Extend the line as a 2 wire line to somewhere near the PC. ( In mine, this meant wiring through house to my DEN. Then fit a socket, and a filter. PC side goes to PC- tele side goes to house wiring . No nasty looking filters to phone. Just simple transmission principles as taught to me by ( GUESS WHO)- yep - BT, or in my case GPO(T) and PO(T).
As Meerkats say - SIMPLES,
.

[Nuvistor]

Re post 15, I think that is what Eidolon wanted OpenReach to do for the installation but for whatever reason they wouldn't.
The Box shown by Kevin in post 14 is probably what has been fitted, if so I would go with what I suggested in post 13. The old pulse telephone would be easy to remove from that style of box.
Frank

[Eidolon]

My box is an old one, that was in the house before I changed to Virgin. He didn't update t for modern tech, he just reconnected it back up, and plugged a 'filter' into the output. The filter had two connections, one for the internet and one for the phone.

As i found out since, what was supposed to happen was that the moderm goes into one port (as it does), but the phone cable was supposed to go into the other, but he instead wired it directly into the box.

Reading the various comments, I've come to the conclusion on two things. Firstly it's rubbish becuase Fuel obvioulsy chose a cheap way of doing it, and also that the technician was a bit incompetent.

Regardinless, it wasn't how I wanted it connected anyway, I need to have my modem elsewhere in the house.
I am now with Post Office for phones and internet, and have asked to see if they can put it right.

If not, I need to disconnectt he cable that goes into the box, fit an end to it, and plug it into the filter, at the very least, to stop all this bother from happening.

[Nuvistor]

Please keep us up to date, hope the PO will sort it our for you, at least you now know how it should fit together if the technician tries to bodge it.
Frank

[Station X]

What a palaver. Just get an NTE5 and a splitter plate or W.H.Y. Fit it where you want it and rearrange the wiring to suit. Then you'll have no need to mess with ADSL filters ever again. They were only introduced in the first place to allow self install.

[Herald1360]

Whatever you do, you or your executors will probably sell the house to someone else long before you'd get prosecuted for tampering with the phone wiring!


Just keep the old bits to quickly put it back to original in case you ever get a genuine line fault, but if you do it properly it's unlikely anyone would notice and even less likely they'd care.