Removing hands from Smiths De-Luxe heavy duty movement

[ianm]

I'm currently working on a large (ok, huge!) Smiths ECS double-sided outdoor clock. One side is in excellent condition, whilst the other has long ago sustained considerable damage, which I am pleased to say looks repairable.

The heavy duty De-Luxe self starting movement isn't quite like any that I have seen before, because the motion work for the hands is a separate unit, connected to the main movement by a linkage. The minute hand is badly mangled and I am about to attempt removal for repair, but first want to check how it is fitted. For now, I am suspecting that the brass ferrule is screwed onto the shaft, rather than simply pushed on. There is a small notch on opposite sides of the ferrule, suggesting that use of a special tool is intended. Anyone know?

I also find that the motor is unfortunately open circuit, so will need to look at either getting it re-wound, or sourcing a replacement.

[TonyDuell]

Have you tried to unscrew it relative to the shaft? You might find a pair of pliers will fit in the notches, or the 'spanner wrench' used for camera lens rings (if you have one).

It might be a left hand thread. My first thought was that a LH thread would tighten from the normal motion of the hands, but thinking some more, I suspect the main torque between the 2 parts is not due to trying to move the hand against its inertia, but rather due to the weight of an unbalanced hand, which would mean that either type of thread will tend to loosen half the time and tighten half the time. It could be either, therefore.

[ianm]

Thanks for the tip, Tony. I'll give it a go; gently of course!

[Nickthedentist]

Interesting clock, Ian, I like it!

Could we have a close-up of the same thing on the undamaged side as a comparison? Are the notches that Tony mentions present on that side too?

I'm sure I have some literature on this movement - I think it mentions a output rate of 1 rpm or something like that. But nothing about the motion work, I'm afraid. Amazing to think that basically the same movement was used on tiny mantel clocks as well as giants like yours.

I always find a drop of PlusGas helps remove hands, whether they're held by a knurled nut or friction-fit.

Nick.

[Nickthedentist]

Looking at my copy of TR Robinson's Modern Clocks (2nd edition, 1942/3), it appears that your movement is most similar to the "Sectric" Timepiece with heavy motor work illustrated on page 177, although this has no provision for setting the hands, and appears to drive a single pair of hands directly.

As for the o/c motor, maybe Ed Dinning could re-wind it, or you could do it yourself with thicker enamelled wire and run it from a low-voltage transformer.

[ianm]

Thanks Nick. The other side of the clock has the exact same ferrule with the two notches.

I suppose that if I assume the spindle to be threaded, as found on some other early Smiths electric clocks, there will be no harm an attempting to turn it if indeed it turns out to be a push fit. I suspect that it really has to be threaded, as a push fit would pose a significant risk of breaking of the glass dial when putting the hand back onto the spindle. I'll report back, anyway.

Just for fun, here's a picture of the 'good' side, all lit up at night!

[Nickthedentist]

That's a wonderful thing! How did you come by it?

OK, I would put a drop of penetrating oil on it, leave it overnight, then while holding the minute hand steady, try turning the supposed nut anticlockwise. I would do this by making a custom tool out of an old flat-bladed screwdriver ground to the correct thickness and notched to accommodate the arbor/spindle.

This basic arrangement was standard on many clocks especially post-WW2, although the nut was usually knurled or square. On the ubiquitous spring-driven mantel clocks, it was considered a big improvement on a pin and dished washer.

N.

[mark_in_manc]

Great looking clock. Given the tradition of large clocks mounted on the outside of undertakers (no-one knows the hour etc etc) it seems fortunate that the legend on yours pertains to nothing more sepulchral than a sofa

[Brigham]

In my experience, these usually were for KLG spark plugs.

[ianm]

I have now removed the brass ferrule that secures the minute hand, having made up a simple tool from a small off-cut of mild steel sheet. The pictures below show the 'capsule' that contains the motion work for the hands, along with the tool mentioned above. Also shown is the mangled hand, that I will now need to straighten out and refinish as best I can.

[Nickthedentist]

Nice work, Ian, well done.

That's an interesting arrangement. What's the 'capsule' wrapped with?

By the way, are there two separate movements and capsules, one for each dial, or do they share?

N.

[ianm]

Hi Nick,

Yes, the two dials are separately driven, hence two movements and two capsules. The wrapping is a kind of greaseproof paper, impregnated with wax or oil, presumably to keep the moisture out.

To put it into perspective, here is the entire movement in place on the 'good' side of the clock.

[Nickthedentist]

Thanks, Ian, very clear photo and interesting to see everything in place.