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Old 9th Jun 2017, 8:51 pm   #101
chriswood1900
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Jeremy a slight correction,
The Transputer was designed in Bristol but made in a factory at Newport now I think now occupied by the National Statistical Office.
If anyone want to look at obsolete recording media I found this.
http://www.obsoletemedia.org/

Chris
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 9:15 pm   #102
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Another dead-end technology: The IBM "Micro Channel" bus as used on their PS/2 PCs.

It was fundamentally a good idea but because they refused to licence it to any PC-Compatible manufacturers it lost out and died. The big killer was the need to use vendor-provided configuration-diskettes to configure it properly, rather than a set of jumpers to set IRQs etc. I spent frustrating days sweating over a stack of these trying to sort-out conflicts between a pair of SCSI adaptors, the onboard hard-disk interface and a pair of Ethernet interfaces in an IBM PS/2 server. The much-hyped "Self-configuration" was a myth.

"EISA" bus was another bus-oddity [largely promoted by Compaq] - an attempt to handle both classic low-throughput "ISA" PC cards but also provide - in the same socket - connectivity for faster interface-cards.

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Old 9th Jun 2017, 9:41 pm   #103
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

The keyboards from those Ps-2s are nice. I have kept and regularly use several of them.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 9:55 pm   #104
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

The Museum of Failure is an interesting idea, but perhaps we need to consider what really constitutes a failure.

Lots of technologies have come and gone over the years. Some, like gramophone records, VHS and audio compact cassettes are no longer mainstream but were popular for decades. These are considered successes.

Less successful were things like Betamax, the 8 track stereo tape cartridge and the minidisc. They didn't become dominant in their field but they were made and sold for a number of years, worked reasonably well and presumably made a profit for their manufacturers. I think it's a bit harsh to label them as failures.

The true failures, in my opinion, are the things that didn't deliver what they promised, perhaps didn't work well, became outdated almost as soon as they launched or were even dropped before hitting the mass market. I can think of a number of early 1980s home video formats - Technicolor Microvideo, Toshiba LVR and GEC / Hitachi CED (capacitive electronic disc). These must have lost money for their respective companies.

I'm afraid Sinclair had more than a few flops that often didn't work well or didn't deliver what they promised. We've already mentioned the unreliable black watch and the C5 electric vehicle which was considered too slow and dangerous to use on the road. But what about the flat screen pocket TV that gobbled expensive special batteries for a few hours' viewing on a tiny black and white screen. Sinclair's ZX Spectrum was successful, but the follow-up, the QL, struggled with technical problems. Even the Spectrum wasn't very reliable, especially in the beginning. A credit to Sinclair, failure didn't put him off.

Usually, in a 'format war', there is only one winner. That was the case with VHS video and compact audio cassettes. But sometimes there's a tie. LP and 45rpm records were rival formats at first, but since almost every record player could play both types of disc, consumers simply bought the type that was most appropriate for the music they wanted. 45rpm for one or two pop songs, 33rpm for longer pieces of music or a collection of songs. Similarly, when recordable DVDs appeared, there were several competing formats DVD-R(W), DVD-RAM, DVD+R(W) all with different recording characteristics. A format war was feared, like VHS and Betamax, but multi-format DVD recorders soon appeared, allaying people's concerns.

On the other hand, HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray didn't have the same happy ending as the DVD +/- format rivalry. HD-DVD was backed by Microsoft, Toshiba and Warner Brothers - big names in the industry, so surely it couldn't fail, right? Wrong. Sony decided to offer their rival but incompatible blu-ray format as standard on their Playstation 3 game console. With millions of PS3's expected to be sold, this would give blu-ray a huge head start against HD-DVD. Microsoft offered the HD-DVD player as an optional accessory for their Xbox 360 games machine to keep the price down. Not many peole bought the HD-DVD upgrade. When it became apparent that blu-ray would outnumber HD-DVD by a large margin, the companies quickly dropped HD-DVD, not wishing to get into another format war. Sometimes, as in this case, it was mostly bad luck that one format lost out, not because it didn't work well enough.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 10:11 pm   #105
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamid_1 View Post
I can think of a number of early 1980s home video formats...
That reminded me of the Philips Video 2000 VCR format. Technically brilliant, with up to eight hours recording time on a single double-sided video cassette, and 'dynamic track following' with the heads mounted on piezo-electric transducers. It was probably introduced too late to compete with the existing VHS-dominated videocassette rental market.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 10:17 pm   #106
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

I can remember disc cameras. Only 15 shots per film disc.
I pulled one to bits years ago for the flash gun inverter to make a pulsed electric fence to stop animals digging up seedlings. It is still in use now.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 11:06 pm   #107
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Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
I don't see the motor industry rushing to fit them in their products. Perhaps there are other issues - stigma, even - that preclude their use for more tor cars?
The added cost of manufacturing non-mass market technology combined with advancements of other alternative technologies (electric) that make it less worthwhile even if it is slightly better or more promising than legacy technology. For example, using 2-cylinder inline engines and using boxer engines (even Diesel boxer engines) also has certain advantages, but there's only one mainstream manufacturer for each concept actually using it. Both manufacturers (FIAT and Subaru, respectively) had been using the concepts 'for ages' so no investment in unknown territory needed.

Same with Mazda who is the only manufacturer who used rotary engines for many years and may still come with a next generation if it is deemed worthwhile financially.
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 11:13 pm   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil G4SPZ View Post
That reminded me of the Philips Video 2000 VCR format. Technically brilliant, with up to eight hours recording time on a single double-sided video cassette, and 'dynamic track following' with the heads mounted on piezo-electric transducers. It was probably introduced too late to compete with the existing VHS-dominated videocassette rental market.
I think it sits on the borderline of failure. It actually was in the top 3 video formats in many European countries and was manufactured for roughly 5 years (Philips early VCC production in late 1979, start of VHS production in 1984, end of VCC production probably in very early 1985, officially discontinued in 1986).
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Old 9th Jun 2017, 11:29 pm   #109
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The London Ambulance Service, 1992: catastrophic failure.

https://www.wired.com/2009/10/1026lo...uter-meltdown/

and (a downloaded .PDF file):

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...M5M1PrS8iuBjxg

Al.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 1:42 am   #110
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The MAC TV system: under an EC directive, MAC decoders were to have been fitted to all new TVs sold in the EC just as Digital was coming in and caused a re-think.

The London Ambulance Service was awful at that time. I was a first aider at work and in 1989 I was summoned to attend to someone found collapsed and semi-conscious with a head wound in a toilet in our office block in Holborn. When our internal switchboard operator dialed 999, it took three quarters of an hour to get put though to the ambulance service: - permanently engaged. This was at 4.30 on a Friday afternoon.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 8:46 am   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maarten View Post

The added cost of manufacturing non-mass market technology combined with advancements of other alternative technologies (electric) that make it less worthwhile even if it is slightly better or more promising than legacy technology. .

Well, I never knew that! I wonder how much progress is set back by premature use of embryonic technology before it is refined to the point of success, or catches the public imagination to such a degree that rapid advances are made?

I'd've said DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale, not Digital Rights Management) was a borderline 'failure' case at one time, coming ten years too late on the back of a costly vehicle of promulgation (high-power HF broadcasting), but it's taking off in China, and is increasing steadily elsewhere. But no thanks to the 'chicken-and-egg' stalemate of which comes first - the service or a cheap accessible receiver?

It wasn't known as 'Doesn't Really Matter' for nothing...
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:02 pm   #112
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Tanuki, that's impressive! They must have sussed the over-layering and damping- shame certain machines made since then...haven't. (Penny pinching presumably)

Brigham, i wasn't implying that 'Old Reliable' was a failure, i was making a contrast between the experiences of the 3 ships, and a reference to misuse/misapplication of the available technology.. If you see what i mean. Anything that steams 500,000 miles or more has to be doing something right.
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Old 10th Jun 2017, 12:24 pm   #113
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigham View Post
The 45 rpm single was deliberately designed to challenge the LP format; yet both became accepted.
The same occurred, twice, in the home games console market. You had either SEGA or NINTENDO, and now SONY or X-BOX. We never heard of anyone 'not buying' until the 'format war is over'.
So why are some products a battle to the death, and some just personal preference?
Depends what they offer, I suppose. The seven-inch 45 and the LP each has its distinct advantage, the one small and cheap, the other its playing time. With games consoles, each has had a fleet of games unique to itself, so each gets its share of devotees, though if not enough customers are enthused quickly enough you get a gradual but quite quickly unfolding "failure" like the Dreamcast. The dynamics of the VHS/Betamax situation, with costly tapes mostly distributed through neighbourhood rental outlets, meant a preferred format was bound to emerge and become the near-universal choice until superseded by technology.

For a few more arguable failures, I'd nominate the Fultograph, Pye's Record Maker, and, coming closer to the present and something I valued considerably, Lightscribe.

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Old 10th Jun 2017, 4:19 pm   #114
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chriswood1900 View Post
Keeping it to technology and particularly Radio and TV what would forum members nominate for our museum.

Chris
I would nominate four CRT pocket TVs, all by Sinclair:
  • 1966: Sinclair developed but did not sell the Microvision Pocket TV Receiver
  • 1976: Sinclair MTV1 Micro TV
  • 1978: Sinclair MTV-1B
  • 1983: Sinclair FTV1 with 2" side gun CRT, launched in 1983 after about 20 years obsession with creating a pocket TV.
In 1983 Casio's TV-10 with an LCD screen was the death knell for CRT pocket TVs.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 7:21 pm   #115
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Crossley record player yet!
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 7:38 pm   #116
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Please don't! We've had enough threads on them already!
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 10:25 pm   #117
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Cobra Mist

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Old 11th Jun 2017, 10:46 pm   #118
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Default Re: Museum of failure.

Computing history is riddled with doomed products, many dating from the late 70s and 1980s home computing boom.
SAM COUPE, anyone? supposed to be the last hurrah for the ZX spectrum, but 8 bit's time had gone ,people were moving to the commodore Amiga/Atari ST, so it ended up in Bull and Greenweld catalogues within a year!
Or the shambles that was ADAM?
Oric?

As to video formats:
I can't believe people have considered something like Betamax a flop when there was D-VHS, JVC's equivalent to dying video what SAM coupe was to 8 Bit. I still have a load of unwrapped DVHS blanks bought at the pound shop about 12 years ago!

What about those camcorders that used recordable DVD discs of about 3 inches in place of tape? Unreliable and quickly dropped for RAM based storage.
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Old 11th Jun 2017, 11:04 pm   #119
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What about those camcorders that used recordable DVD discs of about 3 inches in place of tape? Unreliable and quickly dropped for RAM based storage.
Yes, they were rubbish! I tried 2 different models, one Samsung, and one Sony. Both horribly unreliable.

Another format I've not seen mentioned yet, Sony's Micro MV, another short lived camcorder tape format! Never actually used a camcorder with this format.

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Old 11th Jun 2017, 11:06 pm   #120
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Oh, and I also thought camcorders that used little 1.8" hard drives useless too, took forever to start up, 45 seconds from turning it on to actually being able to use it! And the HDD wasn't user replaceable..

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