UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Radio (domestic)

Notices

Vintage Radio (domestic) Domestic vintage radio (wireless) receivers only.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 23rd Jul 2017, 4:55 pm   #1
paulfifties
Triode
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: East Flanders, Belgium.
Posts: 17
Default Replacement of transistor in VHF section by different type

I've got a ITT Schaub Lorenz GOLF Europa 103 transistor radio.
One of the failures was FM no longer working, while other bands were okay.
So I replaced the T301, which was a BF125 according to the schematics, but a BF224 was fitted in the factory instead.
As I had none of those types available, I replaced it with a BF199.
In order to obtain the same emitter voltage shown in the schematics, I had to increase the base resistor from 2K2 original to 18K.
I include a detail of the original schematics below.

The BF199 does a good job, but the reception is improving considerably if I just hold the probe of my scope against the base of the BF199.
At first I thought I had to modify the base-to-ground capacitor value, but playing with that did not improve anything.
So I wonder if it has to do with some feedback that is induced by holding the probe against the base ? I noticed the same effect while holding 1 leg of a metal drum-shaped trimmer against the base, and holding the other leg (actually the outer, grounded part) with my fingers.

It looks like this has an effect of inducing an additional oscillation, or maybe contrarily: removing some spurious oscillation.

Does anyone have a hint on how I can create this improved reception permanently ? Or maybe point me in the direction of what might be going on here ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GOLF Europa 103 - Detail FM section - Circuit Diagram.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	146693  
paulfifties is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2017, 5:12 pm   #2
crackle
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,100
Default Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

BF125 transistors are available on Ebay from the Netherlands.

Mike
crackle is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2017, 5:41 pm   #3
GeoffK
Heptode
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 602
Default Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

Might be cheaper and better from here even after adding postage and euro conversion.
https://www.cricklewoodelectronics.com/BF125.html
__________________
Geoff
GeoffK is offline  
Old 23rd Jul 2017, 7:37 pm   #4
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,941
Default Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

Domestic designs like these aren't usually fussy about transistor types, so I would look elsewhere before chasing replacement transistors.
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 23rd Jul 2017, 7:38 pm   #5
crackle
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Basildon, Essex, UK.
Posts: 4,100
Default Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

The OP is in Belgium
crackle is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2017, 11:53 am   #6
paulfifties
Triode
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: East Flanders, Belgium.
Posts: 17
Default Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

Actually, the originally mounted transistor is a BF224, so I am looking for data on a BF224B which is available for hardly any money.

But I would rather like to understand what is really going on in the circuit.
Perhaps it is not really the transistor after all, and something might be causing some spurious oscillations at weak input signals ? Or just preventing the correct oscillations.

As I would like to understand the UHF circuit used in this ITT Schaub-Lorenz radio, I would appreciate also if someone could point me to a link or forum that explains all the details.
I, for example, noticed a curious feedback system in the LO using a varicap.

On the other hand, the title of a handbook explaining practical UHF circuits in (transistor and tube) radio receivers would also be helpful.

Paul
paulfifties is offline  
Old 24th Jul 2017, 12:12 pm   #7
Skywave
Rest in Peace
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chard, South Somerset, UK.
Posts: 7,457
Arrow Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfifties View Post
The BF199 does a good job, but the reception is improving considerably if I just hold the probe of my scope against the base of the BF199.
At first I thought I had to modify the base-to-ground capacitor value, but playing with that did not improve anything.
Your 'scope probe will add about 15 pF, base to ground (plus some inductance if the earth lead from the probe was connected to chassis.) That, of course, will modify the behaviour of the set. The "improvement" in reception may not be an evenly-distributed improvement over the whole tuning range. I just wonder what range of capacitances you experimented with. However, in summary, I strongly suspect that varying the value of that capacitance is, in point of fact, a red herring.

Having said all that, it sounds as though the stage associated with T301 (the R.F. amplifier) could be off-tune. Look for changed value low-value capacitors in that stage. L301 / L302 or C305, C306, L303 might be out of adjustment or faulty; possible dry-joints or fractured pcb tracks. R302 looks like it is connected to the AGC line: there may be a problem there. Checking the sensitivity and tuning range with a signal generator could help if you really get stuck.

This fault does not look like it'll be an easy one to crack - so patience and perseverance will be required! Good luck with it.

Al.

Last edited by Skywave; 24th Jul 2017 at 12:38 pm. Reason: General re-write, etc.
Skywave is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2017, 9:22 pm   #8
tri-comp
Heptode
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Aalborg, Denmark
Posts: 903
Default Re: Replacement of transistor in UHF section by different type

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulfifties View Post
I, for example, noticed a curious feedback system in the LO using a varicap.
Hello Paul,

Not so curious after all.
This is a quite ordinary AFC-circuit (Automatic Frequency Control)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automa...quency_control

I've repaired numerous FM-tuners in receivers after thunderstorms.
The RF-amplifier transistor would go dead after the statics especially of course if connected to an outdoor rooftop antenna.
I remember using the BF115 as an almost universal replacement type if the input transistor was a silicon NPN type.
Bang & Olufsen used this type extensively in FM-tuners mounted in their various models portable transistor-radios.
It compaires fairly well with the BF125.
Perhaps a tad lower gain, about the same noise figure and a little lower Ptot and fT.
Probably not something that will upset your FM-tuner much if used as a replacement.
My guess is that if this doesn't cure the sensitivity-issue you may well experience an entirely different problem than that of a defective input transistor.
Considering the age of the radio I would suspect every electrolytic capacitor of being defective.
Here C391/1000uF would probably be a good place to start along with C389/10uF
I also seem to remember some problems with D307/ZF1,5 in this model.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BF125.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	76.9 KB
ID:	146803  

Last edited by tri-comp; 25th Jul 2017 at 9:31 pm. Reason: Added info on D307
tri-comp is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 6:43 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.