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Old 27th Mar 2017, 9:51 am   #1
asprinwizard
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Default JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Hi there,

I have an old JVC GR-C1 camcorder which has developed an annoying intermittent fault where the image appears to shake or tremble from side to side. As I say it is intermittent, sometimes it happens mid-shot and goes away, then comes back later.

I will try and post an example here but I'm currently waiting on delivery of the 8 pin to scart cable I need to capture the image from. In the meantime the best way I could describe it is that it shakes very quickly from side to side - as if the camera is placed on top of a spinning washing machine.

Annoyingly it only occurs on playback, never visible during recording so you don't know until afterwards if the recording has been ruined! I guess this suggests the fault is with the actual recording mechanism but I have no more clue than that except it tends to happen when the camera is being moved around rather than when it's placed statically.

I would be very grateful if anyone could suggest what this might be, and how it could be fixed. I have head cleaners and different tapes on order too (30 mins instead of 45) in case it might be an issue with tape tension, etc. The mechanism does creak a bit as you might expect given it's age - but nothing looks particularly worn, and it never chews tapes or anything like that.

I also own this camera's predecessor (branded as Ferguson) where the camera and recorder were separate. The recorder part no longer works but the VHS-C mechanisms seem virtually identical across the models. If I could identify the culprit component I may be able to take a replacement part out of the old recorder.

Can anyone offer any advice on this.

Thanks,
Richard
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 10:49 am   #2
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Can you upload a clip of this tremble effect? There are several possible causes so it may help diagnose the problem if I can see it. Is there any odd noise being made?
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 10:58 am   #3
Lloyd 1985
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Hi,
It might not be the camcorder at fault, you say it's when it's moved? I used to use a Samsung 8mm camcorder, and if you moved about too quickly with it during recording then when played back the picture would look like it was loosing horizontal sync, and in extreme cases the colour would also go off! Any sudden movements would make it do that. When I started using Mini-DV instead I didn't notice such a problem any more.

Regards,
Lloyd
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 12:47 pm   #4
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Thanks for the replies. I will upload a video of this but I haven't got the AV cable for the camcorder yet. It's on order.

In the meantime if I could clarify for Lloyd 1985 it's not the usual momentary dropout you get from moving old analogue camcorders too quickly. It's a constant tremble side-to-side that seems to get triggered by moving the camera around. I'm familiar with this series of camcorders - I had it's predecessor for many years but I never had this issue.

It seems to be as if something becomes loose in the recording mechanism, as if it loses tracking except that the motion is horizontal rather than vertical.

is there anything I can try while I wait for this AV cable to arrive?

Thanks,
Richard
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 1:25 pm   #5
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Check the pitch roller incase it's gone hard, also check the belts. Any slippage will be made worse by moving the camcorder about.
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 2:03 pm   #6
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Isn't this the camera that went back in time to 1955?

Exposure to a flux capacitor might cause the problems you describe ;-).
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Old 27th Mar 2017, 3:58 pm   #7
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

It is indeed that model, yes - another reason to get it working!

Thanks for everyone's help. I will try and take a look at the mechanism without breaking it further.

If all else fails, is there anyone on these forums who fixes these things? I'm based in North London.

Thanks again,
Richard
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 9:10 am   #8
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Hello again,

I've finally managed to capture the video and upload it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSoJ8tyEkS

As you can see the first few seconds are fine and then it kicks in and wobbles from side to side. There is also a further example towards the end of the video when I'm fiddling around with the settings and it starts wobbling again.

Does anyone have any clue what this could be?
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 9:19 am   #9
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Hi, I'm getting video not found for that link.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 9:37 am   #10
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Apologies, must have missed a character off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSoJ8tyEkSA

Thanks.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 11:46 am   #11
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

I had a Sony 8 camcorder do exactly that - and it was failed capacitors. I don't think it is mechanical as with mechanical problems like slipping tape etc, you will get chroma sway and your fault has a perfect picture but just wobbling. So, options are a bad (oxidized) connection, capacitor fault (which affects all capacitors of a certain rating and voltage inside the VCR but no others) or as an outside choice, a mechanical issue like slipping head drive belt (if fitted). But I would bet that the cause of the issue will be quite obvious when opening the unit like seeing some fuzzy components or belt just holding on

Edit to say do you have a playback machine with TBC? If so, what happens if you play the tape back with that feature turned on?
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 12:01 pm   #12
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

I'd check the playback on another machine without a TBC and see whether it is a record or playback fault first. You may find the recordings play fine on another machine.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 12:40 pm   #13
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Ok thanks. I have a VHS-C player and I think an adapter at my parent's house. I will verify the issue with the playback - but I should point out that it always starts wobbling at the same point in the playback. Would you expect this to be the case if it was just the playback on this machine? I would have thought an intermitent fault would sometimes play back fine, other times wobbly at different points - but I'm happy to be corrected!

I do have an old TBC VCR but the last time I used it, it chewed up every tape I threw at it. I will keep this as a last resort.

Just a couple of other points, the video has no sound from the AV output. Whether this is because of the cable I bought or something else I don't know. I do have the RF modulator so will test against that. There is definitely sound recorded though as have tested through the earphone jack.

Finally, if I was to open up the camera and take photos of the capacitors (and even the drive belt) would you be able to see from these what needs replacing?

Thanks again for taking the time to help me with this.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 4:24 pm   #14
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

As a start, play a known good tape in the camcorder and see if when you shake the camcorder gently you get the same or similar effect. If no and it plays back fine then you will know that it is likely a record problem that is electrical in nature.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 5:07 pm   #15
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Good thinking. I will try that tonight. It does the shake without moving the camcorder on playback so if it occurs that should solve that, at least.

Thanks.
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Old 29th Mar 2017, 7:14 pm   #16
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

I had a similar fault to this on a Sanyo camcorder years ago, sorry the model number eludes me now. The fault was in the mech and was related to the backtension being incorrect.

I used to service quite a few analogue camcorders, the main faults were mechanism out of sequence, sand in gears etc, dirty mode switches, and of course surface mount electrolytic capacitor failure even back then when it was not the epidemic we have now.

You really do need a known good tape recorded on another deck. I'd put this in, start play and then count exactly how it takes before the fault starts. Don't move the unit in any way and listen to it in quiet environment where you may be able to hear any clicks or odd noises from the deck. If you can bring the fault on this way each time, it's almost always a mech fault.
Try taking the unit between pause and play a few times, and see if the problem changes, the mech works differently in this mode.
Depending on the quality of the pause on the unit, does the image still shake in pause? You are then viewing the picture with just the drum servo running.
Back in the day drum/capstan servo faults were rare, but of course these units are now 30years old!

By the way one of the easiest ways to know if you've got a few bad caps is to simply use your nose! They give a unpleasant fishy smell once they have voltage across them.

Let us know how you go on with it.

SJM.
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Old 30th Mar 2017, 5:06 pm   #17
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Thanks SJM,

Unfortunately the only tapes I could find last night were the ones that came with the machine and belonged to the previous owners. They were therefore recorded using the same machine. The issue was present but not as bad as my example I posted - looked worse through the RF converter than through the AV cable for some reason.

Anyway, tonight I intend to stop by my parent's house and pick up alternative tapes, VHS-C adapter and the old (working) VHS-C recorder from my old camera. This should enable me to definitively confirm whether the issue is with the playback or not.
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Old 31st Mar 2017, 12:24 pm   #18
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Right, I didn't have time to run a complete set of tests yesterday but I did play my recent tape (the one in the youtube clip above) in my VHS VCR using the VHS-C adapter and the issue is there plus there was no sound which is rather strange, just hiss.

So it seems the issue is with the recording process. I will run my other tests to verify this, but then I guess it's case of opening up the case and seeing what is going on. I will take photos of the capacitors and the drive belt. Is there anywhere else I should be looking?
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Old 1st Apr 2017, 9:49 am   #19
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Unless you have any experience opening up camcorders I advise caution as often there's an opening procedure and they are pretty tightly packed inside. If you have audio and video problems then it is likely multiple capacitors. Can you look online to find any exploded views about what boards sit where? Sometimes PCB'S are layered one on top of the other pretty tightly.
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Old 3rd Apr 2017, 10:35 am   #20
asprinwizard
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Default Re: JVC GR-C1 Camcorder - can anyone help?

Yes I was thinking of doing it under supervision at a local Restart Party.

It seems the sound was a red herring as the recordings didn't have sound - I think I must have had the microphone only half plugged in. It's working now.

I've done a thorough head clean and changed the tape to 30 minute one, instead of 45. I will do a test shoot tonight to check the issue is still prevalent.

The rest of my testing has been hampered by the fact that my VHS-C player no longer turns on (another project for another day!), but I have the VHS-C adapter which I can use to test against.

I'll report back once I have more news. Thanks for helping me along with this.
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