Medium wave dying?

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

If a new station was to start up on MW/LW (or FM for that matter) how would you get to hear about it?
Truth is, you probably wouldn't. So you wouldn't listen. These days nobody goes tuning round the wavebands like they used to, so the chance of people randomly bumping into a new station is essentially zero.

Hmm. That makes me quite unique then!

Al.

[Radio Wrangler]

Not quite unique,

David

[GeoffK]

Going back to my original post it still seems Argiva the contractors responsible for the BBC Essex broadcasts from the Bakers Wood transmitter, and just about all broadcasting, seem to be doing nothing to resolve the fault with the BBC Essex 765kHz transmissions. I have talked to the distribution manager at BBC Essex and he has asked for times and dates when the faults occur to send on to Argiva, but just listening for a few minutes at any time is enough to hear the fault. Why do Argiva seem incapable of fixing this, it shouldn't be taking so long even if it is only medium wave. Argiva are patrons of The Radio Academy, a registered charity dedicated to 'the encouragement, recognition and promotion of excellence in UK broadcasting and audio production'. So are failing to adhere to their statement.

[ex seismic]

Why do Argiva seem incapable of fixing this

Because some bean counter has decided it is not worth spending money on "old fashioned" AM?

gmb

[HamishBoxer]

Or more commonly known as "Ancient Modulation", not my thoughts at all though.

Still AM will live on with all the pantry transmitters.

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by Hetrodyne

Why do Argiva seem incapable of fixing this, it shouldn't be taking so long even if it is only medium wave. .

You need to ask the BBC why it hasn't been fixed. Arquiva will be perfectly capable of fixing it, but they only contract their expertise to the BBC. There may be financial or incentivisation reasons precluding a speedy repair.

The LF and MF bands are rapidly becoming an ethereal dumping ground for vast swathes of spurii emitted by consumer electronics and efficient luminaires which the public are being coerced into buying, and there's not much that can be done about it.

[Al (astral highway)]

Originally Posted by G6Tanuki

The existing MW broadcasters have, let's face it, over the last couple of decades had to tolerate a raising of the noise-floor across the band by 10 or 15dB from SMPS/inverter/wireless-LAN noise and they've not done anything ...

True. It's so bad that even though I've opened up one tuner and put in extensive RFI filtering and snubbers, there is not a single listenable signal anywhere on the MW band.

I live in a new build flat and SMPS radiates throughout. A 15dB noise floor is a huge noise floor, when you consider that the local Alexandra Palace Xmitter is now rather feeble at just 750W PEP, compared to I think 50KW in some other places around the country.

[paulsherwin]

Modern blocks of flats have lots of steelwork in them, and that combined with all the digital hash makes AM reception very difficult.

[Hartley118]

Originally Posted by ex seismic

Why do Argiva seem incapable of fixing this

Because some bean counter has decided it is not worth spending money on "old fashioned" AM?

Have you tried tweeting a complaint to ‪@arqiva ‬?

I found ‪@arqiva ‬pretty responsive over a local problem we had here.

Martin

[GeoffK]

Originally Posted by russell_w_b

You need to ask the BBC why it hasn't been fixed. Arquiva will be perfectly capable of fixing it, but they only contract their expertise to the BBC. There may be financial or incentivisation reasons precluding a speedy repair.

Originally Posted by Hartley118

Have you tried tweeting a complaint to ‪@arqiva ‬?

I found ‪@arqiva ‬pretty responsive over a local problem we had here.

Martin

Yes I have contacted the BBC and they say they are aware of the problem, I don't have a Twitter account but have emailed Argiva enquiries so will have to wait for their response.

The actual MW signal from BBC Essex is very good, almost FM in its quality, although the compression used gives it a hard edge. it just suffers from these drop-outs, and sometimes sounding as if it is on the edge of a drop-out.

[Radio Wrangler]

AM will continue to live on in aircraft. It was long ago decided that the logistics of changing to FM would be impossible, and since then a number of tricks that would not be effective with FM have been put into use.

Several years ago when I designed the first transmitter of a range of radios it was a strange feeling. All the semiconductor manufacturers had forgotten AM and finding suitable devices for high efficiency class-C was quite difficult as I wanted modern generation high gain silicon. I was definitely swimming against the current.

The powers that be seem to have lost all interest in AM broadcasting as we knew it, so I guess that seals its fate. It may already be dead but just hasn't stopped moving yet.

The only long term hope is that without the heavy hitters and no well-funded takers, the rent and rates will drop to almost zero and we could see some heritage group broadcasters. The cost of maintaining tall masts and high power transmitters would limit the signal strengths and range that could be expected. The transmitters may not be too bad, but use of tall structures becomes a safety issue and periodic inspection and certification would certainly be a legal requirement... and very expensive.

David

[raditechman]

I took a stall at a local charity sale on Saturday. I had a small transistor radio for sale (not vintage or collectable) and to attract attention I had it on Gold on Medium Wave.
It sold to an elderly lady, but soon after another person in his 30's inquired to buy it as their young child liked the music. I said it was sold, and that it was on Medium Waves, which got a blank expression from them.
So it seemed he did not know what Medium Waves was.
I went on to mention AM and FM on the radio and I think they had heard of those terms.

John

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by Hartley118

Have you tried tweeting a complaint to ‪@arqiva ‬?

I found ‪@arqiva ‬pretty responsive over a local problem we had here.

It appears (I've mentioned this before) that complaing is now a far more informal process than it once was, and that Twitter is the best way to do it. I still find this quite an alien process, but hey - if it works?

I'm told that the organisations to whom a complaint is made don't like the negative promulgation of Tweets, as they can be seen by all and sundry, and that no news spreads as fast as bad news. The more traditional complaint to the organisation (writing to the CEO is still a good move, I reckon) simply means that only they can see it, and so may sit on it and do nothing.

I'm not a Twitterer, and I can see that the medium might become nothing more than a whinge channel.

[Brigham]

The modulation system took over from the actual name of the waveband in the public's mind soon after the introduction of VHF Band II, which was, quite correctly, known as 'the FM band'.
This was the result of marketing forces at the time. Naturally, the 'new' system of modulation was the selling point, and so was given the prominence.
I don't know why LW/MW started to be called AM. I've seen a set which carries the markings FM/AM/LW!

[russell_w_b]

Originally Posted by Brigham

I don't know why LW/MW started to be called AM. I've seen a set which carries the markings FM/AM/LW!

Didn't it start in the early-mid 1960s with those small, cheap, Hong-Kong transistor radios that ran on a PP3 battery? Spillover from the requrements of the U. S. market?

[Herald1360]

Originally Posted by Brigham

I've seen a set which carries the markings FM/AM/LW!

That sounds like US influence. They have an FM broadcast band (Band 2 VHF) and an AM broadcast band (MW band) but don't use LW for broadcasting. A set with an LW band for European markets therefore simply calls it LW to distinguish it from the other two bands. Ideally it should be labelled something like VHF/FM, MW/AM, LW/AM but that's a bit of a mouthful!

[Hybrid tellies]

Originally Posted by crusher19860138

I was surprised Mangotsfield was closed down, the reasons given pretty weak ones, I am sure another site could have been found, I believe Clevedon was originally used for BBC Radio Bristol MW, so could have been used again, that said, MW set up technology is cheap in comparison with DAB set up costs and I wonder if the Mangotsfield switch off is really an experiment to see the effect of the switch off and how any future switch offs of AM are handled.

Like the Manor Park AM transmitter site at Reading the Mangotsfield site was leased not bought by the BBC so when the lease ended the landowner wanted to sell the land for housing development. The BBC/Arqiva were looking at an alternative site but they decided that they knew best and scrapped the idea investing instead in local DAB coverage.
Radio Bristol did start its AM transmissions from a low powered transmitter at Clevedon but it put a better signal into South Wales than in many parts of its intended coverage area.

[PsychMan]

I got a lift this morning from a younger fella I work with, he's in his early 20s.

I was amazed to see 906khz (IIRC) tuned on his car radio, told me he listens to it all the time, so there are some hip young people using AM

[Station X]

More likely 909kHz. BBC Radio 5 Live.

[GeoffK]

Arqiva have finally sorted the 765kHz Bakers Wood transmitter. They sent an engineer there to give it a bash with a mallet. Now there are no more drop-outs, it even sounds a bit better.